Sherwood Foresters-Do I or don't I?

[2747andy]

That's two versions then! Voided and non-voided crowns.. Seems I need to keep my eyes open too!

Thanks

Alan

Best regards

Andy

[CftD]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Ivan,
I would say scarce but not that rare! You can pick up a good one for £25-35! The King's crown "Derbyshires" are rare!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3903469812...84.m1555.l2649

Andy

The King's crown Derbyshire other ranks' cap badges are all fakes. Only the officers wore the badge in silver, gilt and blue enamel. David

[badger123]

Originally Posted by Counsel for the Defence

The King's crown Derbyshire other ranks' cap badges are all fakes. Only the officers wore the badge in silver, gilt and blue enamel. David

Thats interesting David, what do you base that on?

[cpgriff]

Originally Posted by Counsel for the Defence

The King's crown Derbyshire other ranks' cap badges are all fakes. Only the officers wore the badge in silver, gilt and blue enamel. David

Notwithstanding the above statement; of those KC Derbyshire examples that are in collections do I take it that these are all lugged and not slidered?

Griff

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Counsel for the Defence

The King's crown Derbyshire other ranks' cap badges are all fakes. Only the officers wore the badge in silver, gilt and blue enamel. David

David,
some evidence please.. as this is claptrap!

Andy

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by cpgriff

Notwithstanding the above statement; of those KC Derbyshire examples that are in collections do I take it that these are all lugged and not slidered?

Griff

They would be lugged!

Andy

[CftD]

Andy2747 states 'they would be lugged' - does that mean that he doesn't have one but presumes that they must be lugged ? Claptrap ! Let me give the definitive story. In the late 1970s, Eric Dickinson and I decided to test the 'knowledge' of the MHS 'gurus' at a Duke of Yorks HQ meeting. We asked Bernard Golding (a badge artisan of high repute) to fabricate a badge for us. We took the scroll from a QVC Derbyshire and the upper section of a lugged Notts and Derby and married them ! The result - a lugged, KC Derbyshire badge. Everyone at the Duke of Yorks HQ meeting was astounded - a very rare badge indeed ! In fact, an out and out FAKE ! There is no sealed pattern, nor any reference in WD records of a KC Derbyshire cap badge for other ranks. There ARE officers' silver, gilt and enamel cap badges and there are gilt and silver plated officers' pattern buttons. The proliferation of KC Derbyshire cap badges on ebay are all slidered - totally inappropriate for the supposed period. That is the true story ! Apologies for exploding the myth. David

[davec2]

I had every intention of not responding to anything posted by yourself David, that way, I could not be accused of being personal nor rising to any bait, should there be any attempt to get me going.

The ' tale ' you have just told, is pretty significant in explaining just how low you are prepared to go to show other people up, to knowingly cheat by knocking up a badge for the purpose you have explained, is pretty crass in my opinion.

Fortunately, I do not know the history of the Derbyshire Regiment, I can not state whether there was or was not a KC version for O/R's but to do what you did, was a poor decision and from now on, anything you say will be taken with quite a large pinch of salt.

How can anyone believe what you say in the future when you admit to cheating, I'm sure a few members will now think that you have shot yourself the foot.

Had I been in the position to make a badge and trust me I could, although I wouldn't, I certainly wouldn't broadcast the fact on this Forum and I have to wonder what any of the members of the MHS now think of you, let alone the members of this Forum, what a completely underhand thing to do.

If what you say is true, in my opinion you should be bloody ashamed of yourself and please don't respond by either accusing me of being self righteous or pious, you are a cheat and you have admitted it, you really should by now, know when to keep your mouth shut.

Dave.

[CftD]

Originally Posted by davec2

I had every intention of not responding to anything posted by yourself David, that way, I could not be accused of being personal nor rising to any bait, should there be any attempt to get me going.

The ' tale ' you have just told, is pretty significant in explaining just how low you are prepared to go to show other people up, to knowingly cheat by knocking up a badge for the purpose you have explained, is pretty crass in my opinion.

Fortunately, I do not know the history of the Derbyshire Regiment, I can not state whether there was or was not a KC version for O/R's but to do what you did, was a poor decision and from now on, anything you say will be taken with quite a large pinch of salt.

How can anyone believe what you say in the future when you admit to cheating, I'm sure a few members will now think that you have shot yourself the foot.

Had I been in the position to make a badge and trust me I could, although I wouldn't, I certainly wouldn't broadcast the fact on this Forum and I have to wonder what any of the members of the MHS now think of you, let alone the members of this Forum, what a completely underhand thing to do.

If what you say is true, in my opinion you should be bloody ashamed of yourself and please don't respond by either accusing me of being self righteous or pious, you are a cheat and you have admitted it, you really should by now, know when to keep your mouth shut.

Dave.

Oh Dave, what an innocent you really are ! Don't you realise that every lug, every slider you attach to a lug-less or slider-less badge is fakery ? The epilogue to my story is that, when everyone had made their exclamations about the KC Derbyshire badge, Eric and I revealed the truth ! That was a fundemental difference in 'the good old days' - no-one was out to cheat anyone else - except Gaylor, King and a bucket-full more ! And so it continues ! David

[davec2]

You really are a condescending and very nasty piece of work David.

Innocent, I may be but I don't think so, honest, yes, certainly and the difference between us is becoming more and more apparent David, I do not have double standards, everything you do and say/write is aimed at suiting your point of view.

Every time I repair a badge, it is a repair, not a fake and I resent the implication that I am faking badges, that statement almost warrants a report to the Mods.

Regardless of whether you declared afterwards what you had done, you still CHEATED and then you blew your own trumpet while trying to get one over another member and you let all the Forum know that you had CHEATED.

It takes me back to my school days, whatever you say in future, we all know that you CHEATED, in your shoes, I think I would have had the sense to keep my mouth shut, cheating is not something to brag about, is it ??

Dave.

[CftD]

Oh Dave - I really can't think of anything else to say to you - our failure to connect seems insurmountable. I wish you no malice ! David

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

They would be lugged!

Andy

They would be lugged as sliders were not introduced until 1903, the title being changed from "Derbyshire" a year earlier to "Notts & Derby". So as pointed out by "The Troll" those with "Derbyshire" and a slider are wrong!

The badge shown below was repaired by Bernard Golding many years ago. It had one existing lug and therefore has one replacement, funny thing, Bernard never mentioned at the time, that he had faked one in the past? I used Bernard many times, he would always mention the fact that he thought a badge was a copy if it was presented for repair! I now used Dave for repairs as he does not take upto a year to do the job and IMO his workmanship is far superior!

I may be proven wrong, but I cannot see the officers being the only ones to have a badge bearing the "Derbyshire" base scroll and a King's crown? Queen Victoria died in 1901, the title changed in the following year! Did they know in advance that the powers to be would authorise the change of base scroll to "Notts & Derby"?

Andy

[oc14]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

David,
some evidence please.. as this is claptrap!

Andy

Andy
don't expect evidence from CFTD-he has never produced evidence when challenged and never will. You may well be deafened by his silence on this one.

Paul L

[oc14]

Originally Posted by Counsel for the Defence

Oh Dave, what an innocent you really are ! Don't you realise that every lug, every slider you attach to a lug-less or slider-less badge is fakery ? The epilogue to my story is that, when everyone had made their exclamations about the KC Derbyshire badge, Eric and I revealed the truth ! That was a fundemental difference in 'the good old days' - no-one was out to cheat anyone else - except Gaylor, King and a bucket-full more ! And so it continues ! David

David

there is a difference between fakery and repair - sadly you don't seem to be able to recognise fakery.

Paul L

[Keith Blakeman]

I'm sure Orasot & Magpie will back me up here as at a Bromley fair last year, there was an officers peaked cap with a bronze, voided, KC Derbyshire for £75. To say they were only made in silver, gilt and enamel is rubbish.