Civil Service Rifles - scroll positions

As promised in post #3, here are some side shots to illustrate how bent about this badge is:

DSCF5170.jpgDSCF5168.jpgDSCF5164.jpg

[Leonard D]

Hi Peter, my WM example has the scrolls turned up - same as the left and right examples you pictured in the opening post. Further to your suggestion that the position of the scrolls may have been "modified" to suit the wearer, I conducted a small experiment this evening. Using a suspect Welsh badge I was able to bend the scrolls upwards towards the coronet by 3mm without any sign of fracture. Lends some credence to your theory methinks?
Cheers.
L.R

Originally Posted by Leonard D

Hi Peter, my WM example has the scrolls turned up - same as the left and right examples you pictured in the opening post. Further to your suggestion that the position of the scrolls may have been "modified" to suit the wearer, I conducted a small experiment this evening. Using a suspect Welsh badge I was able to bend the scrolls upwards towards the coronet by 3mm without any sign of fracture. Lends some credence to your theory methinks?
Cheers.
L.R

Len,

Very brave of you to undertake such an experiment on one of your own specimens, but the results have evidently justified the potential risks.

Great work, and carried out in the true spirit of scientific research; selflessly pushing the boundaries in order to further our knowledge and understanding.

I just hope the RSPCB don't get to hear about it!

As well as no fracturing, was there also an absence of stress and bend marks?

PJ

[Toby Purcell]

Note the more spread scrolls on both collar and cap badge of this Denbigh Hussar circa 1900s.

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

Note the more spread scrolls on both collar and cap badge of this Denbigh Hussar circa 1900s.

That's a cracking photo, Toby.

PJ

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Peter J

That's a cracking photo, Toby.

PJ

I believe it's from the Coronation Yeomanry contingent of Edward VII.

[Leonard D]

Second Peter's comments. A superb old studio photo.
Peter, I examined the bent up scrolls with a 10X loupe and can see no fractures or stress marks. I would imagine that bending the scrolls back to their original positions however, may result in a fracture.
Cheers!
L.R

Originally Posted by Leonard D

Second Peter's comments. A superb old studio photo.
Peter, I examined the bent up scrolls with a 10X loupe and can see no fractures or stress marks. I would imagine that bending the scrolls back to their original positions however, may result in a fracture.
Cheers!
L.R

Thanks Len.

One last possible fly in the ointment... if the badge you carried out the experiment on is (as you phrased it) 'suspect', might this suggest that its constituent metal/s differ somewhat from an 'authentic' badge, and is therefore possibly more pliable, and consequently less susceptible to signs of interference?

I wonder if Andy (Magpie) might be able to advise on this.

Peter.

[Leonard D]

Hi Peter, I had the very same thoughts. The badge used in the experiment is a restrike of unknown vintage and thus metal composition. However, I can state that the slider is 'ard as nails and does not bend readily.
Seems I will have to dig out the Victorian example........now where did I put that pair of pliers!!!!
Cheers.
L.R:

[Keith Blakeman]

Does anyone have any idea what this regiment this badge may belong to?

I've posted it in this thread because with the elongated scrolls the closest match I can find is to a 15th (Civil Service Rifles) London Regt. or their earlier 12th Middlesex RV collar but even they're different turning inwards at the crease.

I can't see any sign of a missing lower scroll and the slider is possible a DIY replacement going by the tool marks along the edges and it looks to have been either shortened or cut to length?

The finish is bronzed gilding metal.

Edit. After searching the forum its possibly a 2nd VB Devonshire Regiment badge, after checking Churchill they were another unit who's collar badges had extended scroll and in their case the crease is outwards.

[Alan O]

It's the right design for the 2VB Devons but the slider is not right for the badge. It should be lugged as they wore side caps and used collars.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Alan O

It's the right design for the 2VB Devons but the slider is not right for the badge. It should be lugged as they wore side caps and used collars.

I'm pretty certain it's not a factory applied slider, it's too crude. No sign of previous loops though?

[cbuehler]

What's this then? I have always assumed this to be a 15th badge. The photo does not quite show the bending back of the feathers well, which is actually more pronounced. The scrolls seem slightly different from the others shown on this thread.

CB