Parachute Regiment cap badge, anodised?

[Frank Kelley]

How do you actually know that it has not simply been re plated

Originally Posted by silverwash

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh ! they are breeding. why polish when you can chrome. this Gaunt example with recognised die flaws has a fair amount of wear which preceded its plating procedure.

[pontecagnano]

Originally Posted by Jack8

I have one of these in my collection, it is a Gaunt pattern badge with D shaped lugs and made of white metal. The partially filled in reverse could be the result of a worn die but it is just speculation. In my opinion it is a genuine Gaunt badge with an unusual reverse die stamping.

Cheers,
Jack

I dug out my own white metal example with copper 'D' lugs for comparative purposes today and have posted pics of it with the 'odd' badge. Similar but not from the same die. It does illustrate the differences with the 'odd' badge however. It's obviously easier to form an opinion if one can handle the badge but it still doesn't look like a struck badge under strong magnification, more of a casting. I have noticed two things new; 1) the badge appears to be smaller than the WM badge (both have the same amount of curve on) and 2) Some of the edges on the 'odd' badge appear too sharp, particularly under magnification, to have been struck. Have a look at the front of the lion and crown as well. I may have the badge metallurgically analysed but don't want it damaged in the process!

Cheers,
Graham

[pontecagnano]

Slightly off topic but I mentioned earlier in the thread that I had another badge with unusual 'D' lugs. I photographed this as well today.

I think there may be an example on the forum but can't seem to find it at the moment.

The badge is very heavy and well made. It may possibly be silver but isn't hall marked. It looks like an original badge but it's not a common pattern.

Could anyone advise who the maker is, or provide any other information, please?

Cheers,
Graham

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by pontecagnano

I dug out my own white metal example with copper 'D' lugs for comparative purposes today and have posted pics of it with the 'odd' badge. Similar but not from the same die. It does illustrate the differences with the 'odd' badge however. It's obviously easier to form an opinion if one can handle the badge but it still doesn't look like a struck badge under strong magnification, more of a casting. I have noticed two things new; 1) the badge appears to be smaller than the WM badge (both have the same amount of curve on) and 2) Some of the edges on the 'odd' badge appear too sharp, particularly under magnification, to have been struck. Have a look at the front of the lion and crown as well. I may have the badge metallurgically analysed but don't want it damaged in the process!

Cheers,
Graham

Hi Graham,

You are correct in that it is easier to form an opinion if one can handle badges but from the photographs it looks like you have two nice original badges; one a Gaunt pattern and the other one is a not commonly found badge by an unknown maker.

I have examples of both these badges and have measured both to be 2 and 5/8 inches wide. Your Gaunt badge looks to be plated as the lugs appear plated, by all means have it tested but as you say it might ruin it.

I think we can become hung up sometimes in the slight variations of same pattern badges but the truth is that we will never know why these variations have occurr.

I am not aware that the well known pattern badges are being copied but I could be wrong.

Cheers,
Jack

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by pontecagnano

Slightly off topic but I mentioned earlier in the thread that I had another badge with unusual 'D' lugs. I photographed this as well today.

I think there may be an example on the forum but can't seem to find it at the moment.

The badge is very heavy and well made. It may possibly be silver but isn't hall marked. It looks like an original badge but it's not a common pattern.

Could anyone advise who the maker is, or provide any other information, please?

Cheers,
Graham

Hi Graham,

I beg to differ on this one. In my opinion it is one of the three commonly found Kings Crown badges assumed to be WW2 issued, the other two being the Gaunt pattern and the voided crown pattern which like the one in question is from an unknown maker.

What is uncommon about this badge are the flat lugs which only appear to be found on this pattern Parachute Regiment other ranks cap badge. I do not think that yours is a silver badge, I have a couple of identical ones and they are a detailed heavy stamping and appear to be nickel plated.

I also have examples of these flat lugs on an Army Air Corps other ranks (the excess metal die flaw type) plated badge and on a brass other ranks Reconnaissance Corps badge. I have no other information on the origin of these lugs unfortunately.

Regards,
Jack

[Mike B]

I hope to learn more from this thread, but add an observation that may not be helpful but concerns the flat form of lug: - The Free Norwegian forces general issue badge for WW2 had the cypher of King Haakon 7. The same pattern was used after the war as King Haakon 7 did not die until 1957:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haakon_VII_of_Norway
Although the WW2 badge (first two images) had our normal pattern rounded lugs, the post war badge (second two images) was of arguably lesser quality, and had the same flat lugs as portrayed in the variant Parachute Regiment badge. Sorry if this is a bit of a 'red herring' but it may help dating the badge as post war, even though Kings Crown. Of course this observation assumes the post WW2 Norwegian badge was manufactured in UK, which may be incorrect. Generally speaking, I have found Norwegian military badges to be of comparable quality to those made in UK.
Mike

[Jack8]

Hi Mike,

The flat lugs on your Norwegian badge are similar but appear to be not quite the same as the ones on the Para badge. It looks as though the hole for the split pin is round and not rectangular as in the lugs on the Para badge.

I have some Scottish badges that have flat lugs with round holes for the pins. I read somewhere that these flat lugs were an economy metal saving exercise but have no proof of this. They are found both plated and unplated.

Cheers,
Jack

[Mike B]

Jack
Your response makes good sense. The flat lugs do look like an economy measure, and you are right (after your prompt) I now recall a couple of Scottish badges with them as you suggest (Black Watch from memory).
All the best
Mike

[Luc]

The King Haakon badge pictured on the left was made in the UK during WW2, it shows raised stones at the bottom of the crown. On the other badge the stones are flush and my impression is that this type was made after the war in Norway.

[Mike B]

Thanks Luc ... sorry I diverted from the main thrust of the thread but your answer is very helpful. I thought the second Haakon 7 badge could have been made in Norway but was not sure - thanks for confirming. It is always good to learn new things.
Mike

[pontecagnano]

Originally Posted by Jack8

Hi Graham,

I beg to differ on this one. In my opinion it is one of the three commonly found Kings Crown badges assumed to be WW2 issued, the other two being the Gaunt pattern and the voided crown pattern which like the one in question is from an unknown maker.

Hello Jack,

Yes, my comment on rarity was probably a little subjective but I have to say these don't come up on eBay very often or appear at any of the militaria shows I attend regularly. Gaunt and voided crown are far more common in this neck of the woods.

I agree that my badge probably isn't silver, having examined it more closely, but for an ORs' pattern it's very nicely struck.

Cheers,

Graham

[pontecagnano]

Originally Posted by Mike B

I hope to learn more from this thread, but add an observation that may not be helpful but concerns the flat form of lug: - The Free Norwegian forces general issue badge for WW2 had the cypher of King Haakon 7. The same pattern was used after the war as King Haakon 7 did not die until 1957

Mike

Hello Mike,

Although, as noted by Jack, the pattern of the flat lugs is different on the badge you illustrated your point about the possibility of my badge being post war is of course valid. Production of lugged Parachute Regiment beret badges continued for a few years after WWII and it isn't always easy to date these accurately. I have a brand new WM badge that was made in either '46 or '47 (need to check the note with it) that came out of a box of 20 that surfaced. I tried to buy the empty box with maker's label but the dealer wouldn't sell it.

All the best,

Graham

[fougasse1940]

Do realise that the KC Parachute Regiment beret badge was only worn for about 2 years (May 43-May 45) during the War but also for at least 9 more years afterwards (May 45-September 54, sealing of QC badge), although by less battalions.

Rgds, Thomas

[Mike B]

All very good points and enjoying this discussion. Thanks all.
Mike

[Frank Kelley]

I think you will find it was worn after 1954!

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Do realise that the KC Parachute Regiment beret badge was only worn for about 2 years (May 43-May 45) during the War but also for at least 9 more years afterwards (May 45-September 54, sealing of QC badge), although by less battalions.

Rgds, Thomas