Z Force patches

[ORISKANY]

Hello to all contributors,

This is a very good thread. Most interesting and full of useful information. As a collector of formation signs (fs) etc I really like to see photographic proof of the fs worn. I look forward to more of the same from other collectors. Imo fs are not always treated as serious collectors items, it is probably a matter of taste. Thank you to all contributors.

ORISKANY

[Hinrik WD]

Bill,

As per user "macusk" who is a Canadia woman posting on ww2f.com, the Highlanders were sent to Iceland. See:

http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/328...n-iceland.html

Her text related to this post:

The British had been pressuring Canada to become involved in the Iceland occupation since Churchill proposed the invasion earlier in the spring.

Canada got its act together as quickly as possible and put together a military expedition grandiosely and mysteriously dubbed "Z Force."

The first element of Z Force, under the command of Brig.-Gen. L.F. Page, set sail from Halifax in early June 1940.

On board the Empress of Australia was one infantry battalion of the Royal Regiment of Canada, armed with 12 Lewis machine guns.

The "Royals" had just gotten their designation as the Royal Regiment of Canada in 1939, but the regimental history dates back to 1862 when the "10th Battalion Volunteer Militia Rifles, Canada" was formed in Toronto to counter the very real threat of invasion by the U.S. Army, then engaged in a brutal civil war but still the largest, best-armed military force in the world — and one that had looked greedily north before.

So now you've got a boatload of Toronto boys — many of whom had never been outside Toronto before (apart from training at Camp Borden and the train ride to Haifax), let alone Canada — arriving in Iceland on June 16, 1940.

The Royals were ferried ashore and marched through silent streets to set up tents in bivouacs near the local airfield that British engineers had begun expanding. Within days of the Canadians' arrival, the British brigades packed up and sailed back to join the war.

So a few hundred young Toronto men were left to guard their mid-Atlantic rock, staring at the sky in search of German paratroopers as the sullen Icelanders stared at their Canadian occupiers.

The Empress of Australia, meanwhile, sailed back to Hailfax where the rest of Z Force had been assembled.

That secondary force consisted of two more battalions — the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa and les Fusiliers Mont-Royal (from Montreal, of course) — who arrived in Iceland to join the Royals on July 9, 1940.

[edstorey]

Even though the regiment did not service in Iceland, my gut reaction was that the decal on the helmet was Victoria Rifles of Canada.

Here are some scans of the VRC and RCASC star badges.

[Bill A]

Hi Hinrik,
To clarify, the use of coloured embroidered shoulder titles was not authorized in the Canadian army until the fall of 1940. So, in Iceland, the units would have likely been wearing the worsted khaki slip ons, if they had them.
The Ottawa Highlanders were renamed the Cameron Highlaners of Ottawa in 1933.

[Bill A]

Hi Ed, The same thought had occured to me, but how would a VRC decaled helmet end up on Iceland? Perhaps the fellow was transferred to the FMR?
The other possibility is that the documentary used "stock" footage, which was used to show the efficiency of the Canadian army, but was not really taken in Iceland.

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi Ed, The same thought had occured to me, but how would a VRC decaled helmet end up on Iceland? Perhaps the fellow was transferred to the FMR?
The other possibility is that the documentary used "stock" footage, which was used to show the efficiency of the Canadian army, but was not really taken in Iceland.

Just something I noticed in passing, is that the helmet's chinstrap don't seem to be the usual canadian-made type,more likely the leather 1st ww type. Am I wrong.
Jo

[Bill A]

Hi Hinrik, Here are images of the other 49th Div patches in my collection. The embroidered Z Force patch is attributed to the Royal Regiment of Canada. The printed patch is the same issue as the pair that were posted earlier.
Hinrik, there is a discussion about a 2 CID tunic on another forum. The discussion is focusing on the buttons. Was that tunic from your museum?

[servicepub]

Brian,
I wish I had known of your Grandfather's photo prior to printing the 2nd edition of Distinguishing Patches as I would have asked to use it.
Clive

[Bill A]

Clive, That photo would be useful in a shoulder title book.

[edstorey]

For sure, there is a good chance that the image was not even taken in Iceland or that the decal is VRC and the owner transferred out of that regiment to the FMR.

The leather chin-strap is also interesting and perhaps the helmet is an early Mk I - Mk II transitional, I will have to get Roger Lucy to have a look and see what he thinks.

[servicepub]

Originally Posted by edstorey

For sure, there is a good chance that the image was not even taken in Iceland or that the decal is VRC and the owner transferred out of that regiment to the FMR.

The leather chin-strap is also interesting and perhaps the helmet is an early Mk I - Mk II transitional, I will have to get Roger Lucy to have a look and see what he thinks.

I am not even convinced that it is VRC as there are no 'points' between the major 'rays' of the badge. It is possible that it is a British unit and our colleagues on the Brit side of the forum should be asked for their opinion. If we buy into the idea that these guys are Canadian but that the film was taen elsewhere and used in the Iceland clip then it isn't a stretch to say that the clip was just representative and it could be any unit. I don't even think that the gunner is wearing 'Canada' flashes although there appears to be something hidden by the jerkin.

[Hinrik WD]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi Hinrik, Here are images of the other 49th Div patches in my collection. The embroidered Z Force patch is attributed to the Royal Regiment of Canada. The printed patch is the same issue as the pair that were posted earlier.
Hinrik, there is a discussion about a 2 CID tunic on another forum. The discussion is focusing on the buttons. Was that tunic from your museum?

Bill,

Can you send me a link to that thread? All the items I have shown are from my collection, which is part of our museum project. I also have a Canadian Officers tunic that has the blue patch with CII marking of the 2nd division and has interesting polar bear brass buttons, which I was told was an indication that the Officer that owned it, was at some time based in Iceland. I will post photos of it later. He was also said to of taken part in the Dieppe raid.

[Bill A]

Hi Hinrik, This is a link to the discussion about your tunic. http://www.network54.com/Forum/28173...7499/Button+ID

[Hinrik WD]

Bill,

That is an interesting thread. That is my jacket and my question. Good to see that people are willing to help in ID it. I however was never sent a link to that descusion.

Regards and thanks

Hinrik

[barriefield-brian]

Originally Posted by servicepub

Brian,
I wish I had known of your Grandfather's photo prior to printing the 2nd edition of Distinguishing Patches as I would have asked to use it.
Clive

We will keep it in mind for edition #3. Am attending the 8th recce reunion, when I get back I have to order that motorcycle book. Cheers Brian