11th mounted rifles

[jim a]

I believe this is a collar but I think the caps are the same size... am I right?

[jim a]

sorry... picture from previous post... try this one

[jim a]

[Tinto]

Hi Jim,
Yes, hat badge and collars are the same size.
So your badge could be a hat, or a left collar badge.
Cheers,
Tinto

[stevjp]

Hi,
It does raise a good question though, how to tell the difference between the 11th's Cap Badge or Left collar.
I always thought it was just the slight difference in expression on the boars face, and that on the Cap Badge the boars head is slightly larger, i.e. 18mm from snout to back of head, opposed to the collar which is just over 16mm.
Is this a correct presumption or just a difference in manufacture. Have attached a pic of the three I have.
Regards
James.

[Tinto]

Hi James,
That's an interesting point you have raised, thanks for showing your badges.
However, I believe that differences in sizes of the boar's head etc. are manufacturing variations and have no other significance.
Here are a couple of mine. Note that the right collar has a larger boar's head, very similar to the hat/left collar you have.
Cheers, Tinto

[pukman]

The NAMR badges that i own are all Gaunt made, and i have the cap badge as the slightly different shaped boars head as in Stevjp's collection.I have never seen one of the right collar with this variation.To confuse matters more ,a lot of photographic evidence points to both the right and left facing Boars heads being worn as a cap badge during WW1.

cheers iain

[Tinto]

Hi Iain,
That's interesting. Here is a scan of back of my right collar for your records. It is also Gaunt made.
Cheers,
Tinto

[pukman]

Heres mine,notice the subtle difference in the cap badge

[Tinto]

A nice set, Iain. There must have been only a few of the long-eared, large boar's head variety made. Most NAMR badges I have seen are the smaller boar's head variety.
Cheers, Tinto

[atillathenunns]

I agree with Tinto, that differences in sizes of the boar's head etc. are manufacturing variations.
However as Iain points out, that he has both small and large boar’s head badges which are both Gaunt made.

Thinking logically, I would surmise that the small boar’s head was manufactured from 1912 to 1915.
(J R Gaunt suffered fire damage to its factory in 1915, during which many dies were damaged)

The large Gaunt made boar’s head was most likely manufactured from 1915 to 1917 (Possibly after 1917 as well)

It is worth mentioning that up until 1917, J. R. Gaunt were the preferred supplier of NZ badges to the NZ Defence Department.
In 1917 it was found that J. R. Gaunt were overcharging for badges in comparison with other British badge makers.
Due to this, from 1917 the NZ Defence Department badge contracts were tendered out to any contractor who could meet the requirements.

While NZ Regimental badges were not actually linked with NZ Defence Department badge contracts, the QM for each regiment that was responsible for purchasing regimental badges would have been aware that the NZ Defence Department had dropped Gaunt as a supplier.

Food for thought anyway.
PS. I have a set of unmarked 11th (North Auckland) Mounted Rifles badges that have the large boars head.

Brent

[pukman]

Of course humble NZ badge collectors like myself have based their collections on the NZ badge bible ,D A Corbetts ''The Regimental badges of New Zealand'' which shows the larger boars head representing the Cap badge flanked by the smaller boars head left and right facing.He even states the cap badge is similar(not the same) as the collars. I was completely unaware that their were two different strikings

I guess that is another anomaly in Corbettts book.Not that its going to bother me into changing my own configeration.

[atillathenunns]

It is worth considering the cap badge of the 11th AMR that was worn from 1912 up until 1915 was indeed similar. (The only difference was the cap badge had a hook)
The 11th AMR cap badges that I have seen with a hook are always left facing with the small boar’s head.

It is also worth considering that the Regimental QM would not be concerned about the small variation in size of the boar’s head, and it is very possible that in 1917 he would have added the new badge supplies with the existing stocks of badges. As such, the issue of a mismatched set as shown in Corbetts book is very possible.