London Scottish - Shoulder Title Change

[Jelly Terror]

Members may be interested in the following:

In regularising shoulder titles for the Territorial Army, the War Office, in December 1922, issued a pamphlet with Army Order 481, entitled ‘Titles and Designations of Units of the Territorial Army’ which specified the correct shoulder titles to be worn by TA units.

AO 481 (1).jpg

For some London Regiment battalions this meant having to give up their existing shoulder titles; a prospect which was not met with any great enthusiasm. As a result a number of units sought means by which to retain them, one of which was the London Scottish.

In France, in 1914, the regiment had been given permission by General Lowther, G.O.C. 1st Guards Brigade, to wear the ‘LONDON/SCOTTISH’ shoulder title (Westlake 1528)...

LS ST x.jpg

...which had been worn from that time onwards. However, in 1922, this design was seen to be a deviation from the correct title ‘T/14/LONDON’ (Westlake 1527) which had been laid down by the War Office in the above mentioned pamphlet.

T14 ST.JPG

The battalion asserted that as well as having conducted their Great War service under the name ‘London Scottish’ this was also the name by which they were best known. They stated that in addition to authority having been given to them to wear the title by General Lowther, in 1914, it was also considered that the name ‘London Scottish’ was instrumental in promoting esprit de corps. The adoption of the ‘T/14/LONDON’ title was not popular, especially in view of previous service under existing conditions.

With regard to other London units in similar positions, compromises with the Honours and Distinctions Committee had been reached. For example, the 21st Battalion had asked that they be permitted to retain their worsted ‘FIRST SURREY RIFLES’ shoulder title...

FSR Worsted.jpg

...a request that was dealt with as a ‘minor deviation’ under the terms of War Office Letter 9/9/London Regiment/1790 (T.F.2) of 18th April 1921*, and which was eventually granted on condition that it be worn in addition to the correct ‘T/21/LONDON’ metal title on the shoulder strap. This was also the case with the 28th, and the 16th Battalions. The Artists Rifles had been granted permission to retain their worsted ‘ARTISTS’ title...

Artists Worsted.jpg

...and the 16th granted permission to wear their ‘QW & CSR’ worsted titles, both on condition that they be worn in addition to the correct ‘T/28/LONDON’ and ‘T/16/LONDON’ metal titles on the shoulder straps.

The 14th Battalion however, was in a slightly different position. It had never had cloth/worsted shoulder titles, and was therefore not in a position to seek a similar compromise. Any agreement that might have been reached under which the wearing of its current title would be in conjunction with the correct ‘T/14/LONDON’ title, was viewed potentially as being cumbersome, given that a repetition of the word ‘London’ would occur (once in the ‘T/14/LONDON’ title, and again in the ‘LONDON/SCOTTISH’ version).

A proposal was put forward by the Divisional Commander to the effect that sanction be given to the recommendation that the authorised shoulder title should be ‘T/14/LONDON SCOTTISH’. Unfortunately for the battalion, at a meeting of the Honours and Distinctions Committee early in 1924, this proposal was viewed as departing from the prescribed regular title pattern, and the recommendation was refused. It was further considered that if any such application from the London Scottish were to be sanctioned it would mean many other battalions of the London Regiment forwarding similar applications.

Interesting to note that as an alternative, the committee was unanimously of the opinion that the 14th Battalion might be permitted to wear at the top of the sleeve, the title ‘LONDON SCOTTISH’ in worsted, in the same way as the 16th, 21st and 28th Battalions had requested.

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* War Office Letter 9/9/London Regiment/1790 (T.F.2) of 18th April 1921, was a missive sent to all Territorial Force Associations, containing the following:

I am commanded by the Army Council to state that applications have been received from Territorial Force units from time to time for permission to introduce into Service Dress uniform minor deviations from the approved pattern, such as a special pattern of button. Such deviations are usually founded on regimental tradition and sentiment, and it has been decided that in future approval may be given by the War Office for such deviations under certain conditions. Detailed instructions for carrying out this decision are being considered. I am therefore to request that Territorial Force Associations will submit to the War Office any applications received from the units under their administration. I am to state further that in addition to approval by the War Office the following conditions will apply:

1. Approval will not be given to any deviation which is detrimental to military efficiency or requirements.
2. Any deviation, for which approval is sought, must have existed in the uniform of the unit before or during the War 1914-18.
3. The R.O.A.C. will not undertake to supply or to stock any of the material or articles constituting the deviation.
4. In no case will any extra expense be admitted against public funds for the provision or maintenance of any deviations.
5. On mobilisation service dress of the approved pattern will be issued under the same conditions as to the Regular Army and no deviation will be allowed.

[leigh kitchen]

Thanks button.

[wardog]

"Thanks"!

[Jelly Terror]

Just wondering what the metal 'T/14/LONDON SCOTTISH' shoulder title might have looked like if the proposal had been accepted:

LS Fantasy Design 1.jpg



LS Fantasy Design 2.jpg



LS Fantasy Design 3.jpg

JT

[Toby Purcell]

Very interesting. There is a thread in the Great War Forum covering London Regiment dress for which this information will make a great addition.

[Drew]

That is absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much for taking the trouble to type it all out for us.

I hope you do not mind me asking about the blue on khaki embroidered title. The IWM version I saw did not come with a description of date, though I had always presumed it was from the 1917 'survey'. It is often described as WW1 in online auctions. For example, here

May I ask what your opinion is? If it were WW1 period, this would seem to contradict your statement that the London Scottish never wore embroidered titles at that period. I have, admittedly, never seen them in photos from the time.

Many thanks,

Chris