Royal Wilts Yeomanry dilemma

[lettman]

I've just received a copy of the book Primus in Armis: An Illustrated History of the Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry. Looking through the photos of ORs in WW2, it appears that no one is wearing the 1916 pattern bronzed PoW feathers (K&K 2283). Instead the cap badges seem to be various versions of the badge with scroll ends both horizontal and vertical, and all gleaming in the daylight as though made in WM or BM. So what has happened to the bronzed pattern, and what are the troops actually wearing between 1939 and 1945? Collar badges? Private purchases? I'm really confused!

[Luke H]

The BM badge was worn during WW2, confusingly it was also worn a lot earlier too but for full dress. The bronzed badge was worn before and during WW1 on khaki SD. I’m unsure of the exact date of change but some time post WW1 the BM badge became standard.

As ever with Yeomanry lots of room for them to do their own thing and not unusual for mixes of badges to be worn breaking ‘the rules’.

[lettman]

Thanks for this. However, why do K&K jump straight from the bronzed version to a post-WW2 dated BM badge? Also, a series of original 1940s photos of regimental badges (the source of which eludes me at present) depicts the RWY badge as the bronzed version, not a BM pattern. I'd love to find out more.

[Luke H]

I don’t have KK to hand to see what was written but post WW2 a great many Yeomanry badges were sealed in an attempt to standardise what was worn. In many cases like the Wilts it was effectively a ‘re-seal’ as the design had not changed. It was likely this KK was referring to.

Even in the internet age photos of Yeomanry are often here to come by so it’s not surprising if KK made the decision to stick with the post WW2 info.

Re the anomalies as I said you will find lots of exceptions to rules with Yeomanry born out in many a photograph throughout their existence.

For example several WW2 group pics of Staffs Yeo wearing both KC crown knot (which was introduced pre-WW2) as well as the older QVC one. Similarly in WW1 you’ll see ‘bright’ plumes in wear on khaki SD which are likely the BM badge.

Whilst I’ve not yet seen or heard of the bronzed version still in wear as late as WW2 it wouldn’t be the biggest shock in the world.

[Alan O]

I can't give an answer on whether the Wilts Yeomanry were officially issued the bi-metal feathers after WW1 or they simply adopted it using privately bought badges or collars but my research into cap badges of post WW1 converted Yeomanry regiments saw a lot of variance.

Post WW1 there were many that dropped their old Yeo badge and wore RTC or RA. Some regiments soon returned to their old designs but most did not.

The raising of duplicate Yeomanry regiments in the late 30's actually saw some Yeomanry regiments with their old badges while the sister regt was wearing RA!

There was a flurry of re-badging Yeomanry regiment back to their old badges and identities mid war.

Post was there was another flurry of changes as new regiments were created and a number of designs were changed: oddly a few including the Wilts yeo changed to ORs design to the officers' pattern badge. The Wilts Yeo adopted the distinctive plume design for all ranks.

Alan

[49lassiepen]

I have the bronze cap badge and a pair of collars -undated as not sure of the date Have a reasonable collection of Wilts yeo items
I also find the arm badges confusing
The tall gent on the front cover 1st row is one of the tallest that I have seen

[Luke H]

Alan is quite correct and I had forgotten to mention there was also a change of design post war to the officers style of badge.

Just to complicate this and hopefully not diverting the thread onto said different pattern I’ve what is clearly an other ranks badge of this type on a nice long slider with rectangular braze hole, I’d put my mortgage on it being pre-WW2, I’m at a loss to explain it.

Edit: it is identical to the badge shown by sean michael cronin in the first picture of his post here: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...29&postcount=9

Attached it what KK says in Vol 2.

[Alan O]

https://twitter.com/vickersmg/status...580417/photo/1

This is a 1918 casualty from the Wilts Yeo after they were converted to infantry as a Wiltshire Regiment battalion. The infantry cap badge is quite clear.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

https://twitter.com/vickersmg/status...580417/photo/1

This is a 1918 casualty from the Wilts Yeo after they were converted to infantry as a Wiltshire Regiment battalion. The infantry cap badge is quite clear.

Fantastic pic Alan.

Clearly here as ‘Pte.’ Edgar John Hinton joined the RWY in 1914 The Wiltshire Regiment must have enforced a change to their cap badge upon the amalgamation forming the 6th (Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry) Battalion in 1917.

We should start a thread on 1917 dismounted Yeomanry battalions and what they wore.

My apologies for diverting the thread.

[lettman]

Many thanks for the varied and interesting replies. My guess is that the issue over what the RWY wore in WW2 is only one aspect of a rather complex situation overall.

[GriffMJ]

Trooper George E Jordan RWYPWO WW2, RWY Group WW2 and an RWY Trooper WW2 (coronet bottom edge has a shadow on the white metal badge). Earlier photos from the Great War Period show White metal and Bronzed Brass cap badges... the Officers wear their own distinct silver/gilt & OSD POWFs. Post WW2 the RWY adopted the Officers version of the cap badge in BiM and then AA.

[GriffMJ]

....the chap, bottom right, does appear to have a bronzed brass in his WW2 SD Cap? [Devizes Troop, North Africa, WW2]

[Alan O]

1911 - the officers have the distinctive plume shape badge in Bronze whilst the OR are wearing nickel or bi-metal badges.

A few QSA ribbons on view.

[cbuehler]

I don't see any distinctively different shape in the officer plumes, but their badges just seem to be slightly smaller?

CB

[GriffMJ]

Officer


ORs


ORs War time


Post 1947 Other Ranks (MM Up slider)


AA (arrows showing a stress ridge also seen in the BiM above - MM Down Slider)