5th Dragoon Guards all GM Economy

[dubaiguy]

From the attached photos would anyone like to confirm if the 5th DG all gilding metal economy badge is a contemporary strike or not.

It appears to be from the exact same die as my bi-metal badge to its left, but has what I would consider a modern slider.

If my KC bi-metal is correct, then that leads me to conclude that the all gm could also be correct, or conversely a modern re-strike.

Or possibly both KC badges are wrong.

Does anyone have a 5th DG economy they are comfortable with and prepared to share for a comparison.

Any comments gratefully received.
Mark

[grenadierguardsman]

The font looks good, imho.
Andy

[cbuehler]

Actually upon close inspection, they are not from the same die. I don't think it possible to make a solid strike from a bi metal badge as there were two different dies for the later, one for the center and one for the surround. Both look good in my opinion.

CB

[dubaiguy]

Thank you CB and Andy for your input. I'm now less troubled as a result of your posts, but I have to admit I would be completely 100% happy if the slider looked a little bit more contemporaneous.

CB, you are of course absolutely correct with your comments on the die. I should have been more clear, in that both the bi-metal and economy have striking die similarities (pun unintentional) - font, shape of the flower, crown shape and jewel arrangement - right down to the size of the jewels on the crown arch. There are possibly other manufacturer variants, such as this one on a member/dealers site which looks to be from a slightly different die.

https://britisharmybadges.com/shop.php?code=57688

Thanks again for both your inputs.
Mark

[Restrikes-ok]

Always thought it was an attractive badge, and an influence in making this frame

[arrestingu]

...is this one ok guys ?
cheers Steve

[dubaiguy]

Splendid frame.

Steve, it looks to be from the same die as my economy shown in Post 1 and has the same slider type. Flat and slightly wider. Considered ok so far..............
Mark

[arrestingu]

thanks buddy.
steve

[Luke H]

I do not believe either GM version shown is original. Both are I think from the same die as this BM repro.

Mark - would it be possible to have a more in focus pic of your BM version please? Am I right in thinking there’s a small die flaw under the crown on the left side and another to the left of the little device at 6 o’clock in the circlet.

[Luke H]

Forgot to mention the title of the thread is actually a slight misnomer.

There was no 1916 all GM (aka economy) issue authorised for 5th Dragoon Guards. This is very clear from Julian’s research.

The cavalry badges authorised in 1916 for production in all GM were:

SP 8381A/1916 (8381/1915) 1st Dragoon Guards - 2,000
SP 4692A/1916 (4692/1898) 6th Dragoons - 2,000
SP 4758B/1916 (4738A/1901) 7th Hussars - 1,000
SP 8650A/1916 (4650/1898) 10th Hussars - 1,000
SP 4693C/1916 (4693B/1905) 16th Lancers - 4,000

Edit: To add I do believe a genuine GM badge exists to the 5th Dragoon Guards, however, whatever it is it is not an official 1916 ‘economy’ issue.

[dubaiguy]

Hi Luke
Thank you for the correction on the economy status.

It's been a bit difficult taking close-ups in natural light this morning due to the low visibility cloud cover. Scotland in September! So I've taken close-ups under electric light, but hopefully you can see what you need.

I'm unable to spot the die-flaws, I think........ There is a circle of black staining just to the right of the flower device which may be covering or incorporated into the die-flaw you mention. I can't see a die flaw below the crown though.

I'm not comfortable with the slider, so your thoughts are not a total surprise. What do you think having now seen the close-ups?
Cheers
Mark

[grenadierguardsman]

If this is a fake, I have to say the quality is not bad at all. Not the normal rounded font, although behind the crown looks a bit smooth.
Andy

[Luke H]

Thanks very much Mark, sorry I meant the bi-metal badge. Would it be possible to have pics of that one please, a more in focus pic the whole badge is fine if possible please.

[dubaiguy]

Again not too clear Luke due to the light, but I can see the small die-flaws in the BiM badge that I think are the ones you mention. As you said earlier, one to the left of the flower and one directly under the crown above the second L in NULLA. Almost impossible to spot with the naked eye, but clear on the larger image.

Is it your opinion then, that both GM and BiM badges are reproduction.

Mark

[Luke H]

Thanks Mark. I believe it is the one I’m seeking clear pics of in order to study seeding patterns and other distinguishing features more closely.

Not at all, your BM badge is absolutely genuine in my belief. Moreover I know of an all GM badge which is I believe from the same die as your BM example and also has what I regard as a period slider.

It is significantly different to the two all GM examples shown in this thread which I believe are from the fake die.