Laurels Good or Bad

[Volunteer Soldier]

Bosley's catalogue, Issue 65 dated 25th January 2012 included a number of Leicestershire Regiment badges (VB,TF et al). I will return to these badges in future posts. Meanwhile I would single out " Leicestershire Regiment cast silver cap badge. Royal Tiger on Leicestershire scroll; scroll above bearing laurels. Blades. GC" This is the entire description. All image rights belong to Bosley's and thus I cannot attach the photo. Only the front of the badge is shown. I now refer to previous posts concerning 'laurels on scroll" on a Somerset Light Infantry badge. When a member asked the question "dud or genuine?' it was overwhelmingly given the thumbs down. I have such a badge and I am also convinced it is a definite dud (repro rubbish) I recall there is another fake? badge to the Essex Regiment badge complete with laurels on scroll and masquerading as a militia badge. What are we to make of the Leicester's badge?
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[Luke H]

Since there is no photo it is hard to comment. Notwithstanding the reserve I suspect would be key to gauge its construction.

Re the SLI with laurel, these are found in the Marsh catalogue and all from the same die so either:

1. They’re a fantasy badge and all fake, a product of Marsh Militaria.
or
2. It was used originally by ??? but has been restruck from the original die to such a degree that it’s impossible (at present) to differentiate.

Personally I’m yet to see a SLI with the laurel that I would consider original. I’ve read that latterly such a badges may have been used by a OTC or School however this is purely conjecture as I’ve seen no evidence. My belief remains that they’re all fake / fantasy.

However, it doesn’t necessarily stand to reason that one regiment having a laurel on scroll = fake/fantasy, that this would apply to all.

I’m minded of the very scarce and still unidentified Essex and Middlesex cap badges.

[Alan O]

As far as the SLI goes I have been to the SLI museum and no example exists. Also it is put about that it was an OTC badge. Well I can tell you that:

1. Taunton OTC wore their own badge.
2. As did Wellington.
3. Bath OTC wore the 1st Bn badge with Jellabad.
4. Queens Taunton CC wore a school badge.
5. Kings College Taunton wore the VB badge then the Regular badge. A blank but seeded badge exists which my be theirs from 1908 but I knew a keen SLI collector and even he was not sure.
6. There is no evidence of a bespoke militia badge.

It may be based on an unrecorded militia badge or a short lived 1908 cadet badge but so far the only picture of it is in MM catalogue.

I should add that the Leicesters is probably an officers' badge so may well be an officers only design for militia or VB.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

It may be based on an unrecorded militia badge or a short lived 1908 cadet badge but so far the only picture of it is in MM catalogue.

Good analysis Alan.

Re that point above, extremely remote such a genuine die would be in the catalogue.

Majority of the Marsh catalogue are out and out fake dies.

The few original dies used are FN with a smattering of Woodward, Firmin and Gaunt.

None are early TF or Militia dies. I think we can safely rule out it would not be an original die from this era.

[Alan O]

I have no doubt the die is a fake one but I can't rule out it is copy of an unrecorded badge. There is an ORs seeded blank scroll cap badge on a slider out there which remains unattributed.

[Volunteer Soldier]

Thank you Alan and Luke. Is it possible to post a photo please of the MM fake?

[Alan O]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186017259...b0bbf8b34286bb

Not a recommended buy.

[Fatherofthree]

Good evening.

With regards to The Essex Regiment badge with laurels on the plinth, (not the scroll); as Luke has stated, it has yet to be determined which unit wore them or if they were actually worn and not a trial pattern.

I believe they are a genuine, albeit very short lived badge, I have seen 4 or 5 examples only, one of which was a ground dug relic which to my mind tends to show that at some time they were worn after being issued.

If I were to make a guess as to their purpose, I would suggest a very limited trial Territorial pattern or alternatively the Militia Battalion, (which would then be superceded by the reversed metals issue), which is also a very scarce badge.

Regards.

Brian

[Luke H]

Without wishing to divert the thread, but for accuracies sake and to correct my statement in post #2.

Recalled an email convo with another member from a few years back when Castle Militaria (previously Clanfield Militaria) was closing down, the attached PASLI was listed.

As you can see it is not from the same die, construction is also different with a semi-die cast back. Alas I’m no fan of this one either and feel it is of relatively modern manufacture.

Middle badge is the one Alan linked above for reference.

Also attached is the blank scroll badge Alan mentioned. The die has been hobbed to erase it, some traces of the original lettering is visible towards the scroll edges. I’m of the belief these are genuine.

[stenoyab]

I can't say about the PASLI badges, but the waist belt clasps for the regulars, volunteer battalion and militia had Laurels on them, so as a county they weren't adverse to them.

[Alan O]

[/QUOTE]Also attached is the blank scroll badge Alan mentioned. The die has been hobbed to erase it, some traces of the original lettering is visible towards the scroll edges. I’m of the belief these are genuine.[/QUOTE]

Luke

I would agree that it is period. The presence of a short slider suggests post 1906 to me.

One option from that period that has not been mentioned so far is the 1918 Somerset LI Volunteer Battalions (late-VTC). They would have been wearing the large cost of arms badge in 1917. In 1918 as you are aware the County Battalions were authorised to wear the Regular pattern badges but without battlehonours as the TA had done. Not all had changed by the end of the war but there is documentary evidence that some did - Cheshires certainly did and the Middlesex also and the Middlesex used the old blank scroll TF design worn by the 10th Bn and cadets.

As SLI TF Bns all had the SA 1900-01 honour then that design could not be re-used so if a new badge was made then this one is a contender.

It is a big 'if' but it's an option for it's identity and a stronger argument than OTC or militia.

Alan