Royal Signals SNCO's badge

[sapper533]

Hi

Spotted this photo of a WO2's Bandsmans uniform, the 'Jimmy' appeared larger and more colourful than the standard SNCO's badge.

Maybe a shaped blazer badge?

Cheers
Sean

[Mike H]

I'm sure Chris would know. He runs his own Signals website. Knowledgeable man .

[Chris Walker]

Dear Sean and Mike.

I am very sorry but I did not see the above Thread dated 28th Feb 2024 so I am sorry for the very late reply.
Indeed I have never seen this configuration of WOII Crown and Jimmy on a Red No1 Dress dress before. I like you both assume this is a Drum Majors sleeve.
Here I must add if Royal Signals Dress Regulations changed with the change over to CAMUS regulations I can only hope Alan O can be of assistance. For myself I have not been aware if this was the case.
If we do assume this is a Drum Majors sleeve I do not understand the lack of the 4 Cheverons indicating this.
The Jimmy in your photo Sean does indeed look like a cut down blazer badge. Much to big to be a cut down Officer's Beret Badge I think. Did you have any further indications as to what I might be from when you first saw this image Sean.
Unless Alan O can come up with a better explanation and there has indeed be a Dress Regulation change over the last few years Sean it really is a mystery to me as well.
I am only aware of the three types of insignia worn by a Royal Signals Drum Major as shown in the photos I attach below.
Indeed the Signals Northern Band did change their configuration of the Cheverons and Embroidery around 2015 or so and this can quite clearly be seen on the photos I attach.
Sorry I can be of no further assistance with this one Sean. I hope Alan O may be able to help.

With my kind regards

Chris Walker

[Alan O]

When they set up CAMUS and the bands all rebadged to CAMUS, for the sake of historical lineage they all retained the 'parent' no1 dress uniform unchanged. So I don't think it has anything to do with CAMUS.

[Alan O]

I do wonder if it is a blazer badge too - possibly a TA jacket?

[Chris Walker]

Dear Alan.

Thank you for coming back so quickly. I am delighted to know there has not be a change that I do not know about.

Many thanks

Chris

[sapper533]

Photo the full tunic

[Chris Walker]

Dear Sean.

Many thanks for showing the full photo of the jacket.

I am still none the wiser for seeing it Sean.

I do not think it is a TA jacket but there is merit in the thought it could be a cadet jacket. Still many Signals cadet units around I believe.

I hope some other member of the Forum can come up with an answer.

Thanks for showing it Sean

Cheers

Chris

[Alan O]

Can't say I have ever seen cadets in red tunics. There are a few with No1 dress blues for certain appointments but otherwise it's MTP.

[Chris Walker]

Dear Sean and Mike and Alan O.

Having had a little time to think regarding the SNCO's sleeve badge configueration there is one other point that might be considered.

I have shown below a couple of photos of past Royal Signals Band Masters.

The first and possibly the best view is of WO1 Colin Hales who was the Band Master from 2008 until 2010. In the photo below you can clearly see that the insignia on his arm above the scroll is a Muscians badge above which is his WO1 rank badge. The second photo is that of Band Master Paul Wilman WO1 but unfortunately you can only see the top of his WO1 rank badge.

The point I am trying to make is although there are no Cheverons there is a badge between the scroll and the rank badge.

Now. Unknown to me but Alan O may be able to help. Is there a possibility that the muscians badge was changed to the individuals Regiment or Corps
badge after the move to CAMUS purely to indicate where the Band Master was from.

In my opinion this is not likely but it is a thought. Also was the working rank of a Band Master down graded to WO11 from time to time.

I only have a few names of Royal Signals Band Masters all of whom were WO1's.
2002 - 2005 WO1 Paul Wiloman.
2008 - 2010 WO1 Colin Hales
2010 - 2013 WO1 Claire Milghate.

I only mention the above as being my thoughts as I have no other explanation as to where Jimmy was introduced or why.

Please Alan O let us have your thoughts.

Kind regards

Chris

[sapper533]

As an aside, you can see why the Americans wonder why we call it "uniform"
2 Bandmasters, different colour backings to collar badges and different colour rank badge backings......how are we supposed to keep up ?

[sapper533]

In other Regiments and Corps where SNCOs wear a regimental badge above their chevrons, Warrant officers wear them below their Rank badge.
I guess that is what this might be purporting to be.

[Alan O]

As far a s I know there was no change to the parade uniforms at all when CAMUS was formed. They stayed just the same.

[54Bty]

The Tunic looks to be for a Band Master, nothing to do with Drum Majors. The oddity is the Jimmy (facing backwards as well), and not a Crown Lyre in Wreath.

The other Band Master Jackets are different in a number of ways not just the badges.

My 2pence worth.

Marc

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

The Tunic looks to be for a Band Master, nothing to do with Drum Majors. The oddity is the Jimmy (facing backwards as well), and not a Crown Lyre in Wreath.

The other Band Master Jackets are different in a number of ways not just the badges.

My 2pence worth.

Marc

Jimmy is facing as he would if it was a blazer badge. I would agree that it is unlikely to be a Regular RSIGNALS bandmaster. I think it's either a TA jacket with the owner making up his own design (not unheard of!) or someone has been creative.

Alan