Help with badge id please.

[Nel Groves]

Can anyone tell me what these two badges are please.
They belonged to my late Grandfather and have recently been passed on to me along with many other items.

Many thanks.

[Mike B]

I believe your item is 'Surveyor Royal Artillery' see 73C in British Army Proficiency Badges by my friend Denis Edwards, and David Langley. Reference is made to ACI 396/1921. If my understanding is correct it was for Surveyors RA this example being for Warrant Officers NCO's and Men who qualified in all branches of the survey course. ACI 261 of 1925 approved it for "all other ranks who have passed the trade test as Computer (Artillery Survey) or Draughtsman (Topographical)"
It was phased out in the 1950's and the badge illustrated as 73A (also on page 74) consisting of an S separately within an uncrowned laurel? wreath in metal was taken into use.
Colours given for the black and white illustration are Brn/K (I think Brown on Khaki).
Did your Relative have connections with the Royal Artillery?

[zob]

Originally Posted by Nel Groves

Can anyone tell me what these two badges are please.
They belonged to my late Grandfather and have recently been passed on to me along with many other items.

Many thanks.

Hi Nel,

Your badges are full dress bullion and service dress khaki pattern trade proficiency insignia for a BATTERY SURVEYOR (Field Regiments, RA) and SURVEY RA CLASS III (Survey Regts). Introduced circa: 1925 and discontinued in 1944 for battery surveyors who passed a trade test as Observer (Artillery Survey). Meaning that they were responsible for basic survey on a of gun position - working out positions of troops (of guns) and batteries within the regiment etc., see: Denis Edwards and David Langley's book: British Army Proficiency Badges for more information.

Best regards,

Zob.

[Mike B]

Not being an expert in this area I refer heavily to the book 'British Army Proficiency Badges' by Edwards and Langley. Members may not be aware that Denis updated and expanded the 1984 book, - incorporating a Supplement 2005. Looking at it again - and referring to Zob's response:

The insignia initiating the thread (S in wreath, KC or QC) - ACI 396/1921 - is described as Surveyor Royal Artillery Class I. It is illustrated as 73C with detail noted in my earlier reply.

ACI 261 / 1925 suggests S with no wreath or crown was worn by Battery Surveyors (Field Regiments, RA) and Survey RA Class III (Survey Regiments) - this insignia is illustrated as 73D and is said to be 'seldom worn, lacking the prestige of other survey badges, and not readily available' - See Edwards and Langley page 75 for text, page 74 for illustration. Although drawing attention to listing in Material Regulations for the Army Volume 3 dated 1974 - Edwards and Langley go on to state the S with no wreath or crown was discontinued in 1944 upon rationalisation of several army trades under A' or 'B' Trades, and this became a 'B' Trade.

Regards Mike

[zob]

Hi Nel,

Yes - Mike is absolutely right as in "Denis Edwards and Langley". "S" in Wreath, KC or QC Surveyor, Royal Artillery, Class I and phased out in the 1950's for "S" in Wreath without crown or star.

I hope this helps,

Best regards,

Zob.

[Nel Groves]

Hello Mike and Zob,

Thank you very much for your help in identifying these badges.
What you have both said makes a lot of sense as he was in the Royal Artillary from 1934 until 1959, with a spell in the RSR. He was a WO I, RSM and was a survey instructor.
The badge on the right of the picture is indeed brown on khaki, although it is a bit faded.
Many thanks to you both,

Nel.