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  #1  
Old 07-08-13, 07:31 AM
natal01 natal01 is offline
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Default RNVR patch - is it South African ?

This RNVR patch turned up in Cape Town a while ago and I have never been able to place it. I know that there were RNVR detachments in Cape Town and Durban around WW1 and would like to know if this patch was worn by one of their members. Can anyone help ?
Many thanks
Mike
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  #2  
Old 07-08-13, 08:01 AM
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Milmed Milmed is offline
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Hi Mike,
Sorry cant help with a positive ID, as I have the same questions about two similar tabs/titles I have. Mine are the letters S.A.T.S.(which probably stands for South African Training Ship), one been blue on white like yours and the other red on black. These are also a rectangular piece of material like yours, so may come from the same period. I have an article on the dress of the SA Navy written by Commander Mac Bisset of the Naval Museum and he does not mention these titles at all.

I have a feeling these may have been used between the wars and worn on the lower sleeves of ratings tunics, but this is only speculation.

Regards
Steven

I have just re-read the navy uniform article and there is mention of the SANS (South African Naval Service 1922-1939) wearing SANS/SASD titles above the lace curl by officers. The ratings wore the same initials within an embroidered circle on the cuff. I have seen one of these in a Cape Town collectors collection.
So if the SANS were wearing these between the wars, maybe the SATS and RNVR also wore them and would explain our badges.
Most of these naval units amalgamated in 1940 to form Seaward Defence force and renamed SA Naval Forces in 1942. They all wore an orange diamond on the cuff during the war years.

Steven

Last edited by Milmed; 07-08-13 at 09:39 AM.
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  #3  
Old 07-08-13, 06:14 PM
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Hi Mike/Steven, very nice titles. I have a button with RNVR-SA on. I would think that the title would have been the same, but then one can never be sure. Things sometimes get made and issued even though they are not 100% correct. Regards Andrew
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Old 07-08-13, 06:34 PM
Nozzer Nozzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natal01 View Post
This RNVR patch turned up in Cape Town a while ago and I have never been able to place it. I know that there were RNVR detachments in Cape Town and Durban around WW1 and would like to know if this patch was worn by one of their members. Can anyone help ?
Many thanks
Mike
I don't think it is South African.

This badge was worn by Ratings of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserves on both cuffs from 1924. The Following year it it was only worn on the left cuff.

Kind regards,

Andy

Last edited by Nozzer; 08-08-13 at 03:28 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-08-13, 07:33 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Hi All
I tend to agree that it wasn't South African, though I could easily be wrong... I think it's a British title.
Cheers,
Alex
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  #6  
Old 08-08-13, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzer View Post
I don't think it is South African.

This badge was worn by Ratings of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserves on both cuffs fron 1924. The Following year it it was only worn on the left cuff.

Kind regards,

Andy
Does this also apply to red letters on blue background?

At least one notable badge dealer is calling those WW1 period.
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Old 08-08-13, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba View Post
Does this also apply to red letters on blue background?

At least one notable badge dealer is calling those WW1 period.
Page 87 of Badges and Insignia of the British Armed Services states that in 1923 ratings were ordered to wear a 3/4" V on each cuff, replaced in 1924 by 1/2" RNVR again worn on each cuff and being worn on the left cuff only the following year. It makes no mention of it being worn in WW1.
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Old 08-08-13, 02:05 PM
Madziro Madziro is offline
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The SA navy during WW2 was considered to be a part of the RNVR. SA sailors were awarded the RNVR Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. Have attached a group to a SA sailor for interest. The SA navy "came into its own" only after the end of WW2.

Have attached some titles and cap badges as received from SA sailors.
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Old 08-08-13, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzer View Post
Page 87 of Badges and Insignia of the British Armed Services states that in 1923 ratings were ordered to wear a 3/4" V on each cuff, replaced in 1924 by 1/2" RNVR again worn on each cuff and being worn on the left cuff only the following year. It makes no mention of it being worn in WW1.
RNVR WW1 period Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve arm badge.

A good scarce red embroidered on navy rectangular example.

Code: 1016796 Price:

Description taken from BuyWyze. You can still view the badge in their shop even though it has been sold.
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  #10  
Old 08-08-13, 03:39 PM
Nozzer Nozzer is offline
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Sadly I can't find anything else, just those dates that I have quoted.

It might help to post the badge in the RN section. I am sure someone will be able to give a more definitive answer.

Andy
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  #11  
Old 08-08-13, 08:36 PM
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Its RNVR, as has been mentioned.

I have a good RPPC of a CPO wearing this title I will find it & post.

RCN Bryan
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  #12  
Old 08-08-13, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba View Post
Does this also apply to red letters on blue background?

At least one notable badge dealer is calling those WW1 period.
yes, it exist in both red & gold, I am certain I have both examples & will try to post.

RCN Bryan
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  #13  
Old 08-08-13, 09:43 PM
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Default RNVR cuff title

Photo of RNVR CPO wearing cuff title - now its not all that sharp or clear but I think viewers will be able to see it.
Taken in the late 1920's.

First, the group of three CPO's. I have the middle CPO's medals, cap ribbons ,orriginal parchments some of his badges etc.

Next, the CPO on the Right wearing the title on his LEFT sleeve, as mentioned above. & a closeup of what is visible of the title.

Next, the CPO on the left - he may be wearing the title on his left sleeve but not visible. But definitely not worn on his RIGHT sleeve.

RCN Bryan
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  #14  
Old 08-08-13, 09:45 PM
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Default RNVR Cuff Title

& the two gold wire examples I have from the CPO collection mentioned in my previous post... I thought I had them in blue & red but I am unable to locate at this time.....
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Old 08-08-13, 09:48 PM
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states that in 1923 ratings were ordered to wear a 3/4" V on each cuff, replaced in 1924 by 1/2" RNVR again worn on each cuff and being worn on the left cuff only the following year. It makes no mention of it being worn in WW1.

& these are examples of the V badges Nozzer has mentioned in his post above....
& again, part of the CPO collection I have to the middle CPO in the photo, presumably he wore these prior to the introduction of the RNVR titles


RCN Bryan
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