Royal Signals post 1946 on blue cloth backing

[Chris Walker]

Dear Friends.

As this is my sphere of collecting so to speak I have recently been asked to identify the Royal Corps of Signals cap/beret badge post 1946 design and pre 1954 design which has a Kings Crown on a blue Melton-Cloth backing that is glued to a brass back plate. The request was for the unit and who would have worn it. Photos are attached at the bottom of the page.

My current reply is I do not actually know!

It is most definitely not a beret badge for 94 Berkshire Yeomanry Signal Squadron. This unit did not appear until 1969 an therefore would have been a Queens Crown. Officer's of the Squadron wear a bullion beret badge and the OR's wear a Jimmy on a blue cloth backing which is lighter than the attachments below.

It is not a badge that would have been worn by No 6 Boys Training Regiment
who were stationed in Beverley in Yorkshire. No backing was worn by them.

It is most definitely not a blue backing as worn for Term Identification by the Junior Leaders Regiment Royal Corps of Signals. Blue designated the third Term for a soldier and their backing plates of which there were six different colours were made of plastic. Dating from 1960 until closure in 1967.

It is not for 1 Training Regiment Royal Corps of Signals. Again they did not wear backing colours.

There is a theory that it may have been worn by a Signaller attached to a unit who wore a different cap badge and wore the backing colour and the soldier may have been allowed to wear the Signals badge on the backing cloth. As this has a Kings Crown and must have ended by 1954 I do not really subscribe to this theory.

I must point out before going any further the Jimmy as shown in the photos below seems to have been on the blue Milton-Cloth for quite some time as shown by the outline of the badge once it is removed from the cloth.

I have discounted the idea of the badge being worn by any ACF/CCF unit. Cadet forces were re-established in 1942. These units continue today. There are a number of these Signal Units today that do actually wear a cloth badge which is sewn onto their berets. I do not think the Kings Crown version in question is or was used by any of these units.

I accept that a number of Signallers wore their pre 1954 Kings Crown Jimmy badge for quite some time after the design change. In many cases this was to run down old stock and most certainly in Scotland the Kings Crown Glengarry badge was worn by Signallers for several years after the change over. Mostly in Bands. Again I know of none with the blue Melton-Cloth backing.

As stated above I really do not know who may have used this badge and what unit. If any member of the Forum can come up with any other ideas over and above the ones I have stated above I should be most interested to learn of them.

With my very best wishes

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

[Chris Walker]

Dear friends.

Further to my original post. I thought I would point out that the badge in question as per the photo is in fact Non-Voided as it should be as per the 1946 Patent.

There is no Non-Voided badges of this period that appear in Major Harfield's book Badges and Embellishments of the Royal Signals.

Is this significant in proving if the badge is genuine or not.

Interesting point me thinks.

Best wishes

Chris Walker.

[fairlie63]

Hi Chris, is it entirely possible that a Sig, on leaving the army and handing back his gear, in a moment of boredom later in life, glued a bit of blue felt on his backing plate and the badge got tossed onto the workbench, or eventually found its way down to the grand kids or a house clearance on his death?

So, no unit significance at all, just one of those things people do from time to time.

Keith

[Phil2M]

A collector's method of displaying his badges?

[fougasse1940]

Is the unvoided crown original to the badge or possibly sourced from elsewhere?

Rgds, Thomas

Hi Chris, my thought for what it's worth, an 'old sweat' wearing his kings crown for the hell of it when he joined the Berkshire Yeomanry, few would have realised! Regards Mark

[Drummajor]

The Crown appears to be somewhat larger than a "normal" one?

Phil.

[Chris Walker]

Dear Thomas, MarkGD and Phil2M.

A quick reply to a few of your comments.

A collectors way of displaying his badge. Yes I can accept that one as it happens all the time. Not a good idea but as I say it seems to happen fairly regularly.

Not sure about the "old sweat" idea Mark. Would have been a long time after the KC badge was out of use and I tend to think the dark colour blue even with age is too dark. But a good theory and possible.

Thomas. The Non-Voided badge is really a mystery to me. This is the main reason I have my doubts as to this being genuine. As Drum Major (Phil) says the crown does look a little large.

I have attached a genuine post bi-metal Kings Crown Jimmy badge just for comparison. Clearly Voided.

Most grateful for your comments. Keep them coming.

Best wishes

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

[54Bty]

I can not seen any difference in the two Jimmies, only the crown which of course is not attached to Jimmy so can come from anywhere.

I wore a KC RA beret badge through most of the 1980s.

Marc

[Quicksilver]

Marc is right. Someone took my beret and I ended up with one with a KC and Jimmy during the 1960s. No one ever questioned that. Also 1 TR could easily have had a keen staff who wore a backing behind the cap badge. Just because some author wrote they wore blue on their epaulets does not mean they did not have blue elsewhere.
Quicksilver

[Chris Walker]

Dear Friends.

Just because I am getting on in years and am well past the retirement age I have time on my hands.

Just as a matter of interest I have just gone through all the current 28 pages (2100 items) of Signals badges that currently appear on Ebay.

I have not seen one Non-Voided 1946 design Kings Crown or for that matter Queens Crown cap badge for sale. I must admit there are a number of Gurkha Signals Non-Voided cap badge for sale but this I think is down to the size of Crown.

At the same time I only found two post 1921 Royal Signals cap badges that were Non-Voided.

Not of great importance I must say but possibly shows how scarce the post 1946 either Kings or Queens Crowns on Royal Signals cap badges must be.

Hope this is not too boring an item to relate.

Best wishes

Chris Walker

www.signalsbadges.co.uk

[grey_green_acorn]

Miniature (but larger than Royal Signals KC with 'Jimmy' type) non-voided King's Crowns exist as officer's rank badges with matching small pips.
See top row.

Tim

[Chris Walker]

Dear Tim.

Many thanks for sight of the set of Officer's Crowns with both Void and Non-Void badges.

Delighted to see. I was aware that rank badges were made in the Non-Void way but delighted to see this set.

Many thanks

Chris

[Chris Walker]

Dear Friends.

I am delighted to say I have just had a photograph sent to me by my friend and fellow Signals Badge Collector Colin Hodgkins which shows another version of a Post 1946 Design Signals badge on a felt backing.

This badge looks to be an Officer's Pattern Gilt & Silver badge (You can just see the Tang fitting protruding from the Kings Crown) at the top of the badge. The felt or cloth backing is dark possibly dark blue and again seems to be stuck onto a back plate.

Colin tells me he can not quite remember but thinks he got it from a collectors job lot and that like I thinks it may have been made up to fit into the collectors collection. The backing being added.

As per the original post on this Thread, if this badge is genuine I have no idea as to the unit it may have been used by if at all.

The cloth fitting is not as well affixed as the first photo of this Thread.

Another question that has no actual answer at this time but nice to see.

Once again any thoughts would be gratefully received by way of an answer.

Best wishes

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

[badjez]

Over the years I have become aware that the Crown and Jimmy as issued rarely stayed together. An ex-signaller once explained that as beret badges became lost the collar Jimmy would be taken from the No2 Dress (irrespective of which way it faced) and used on a beret. Next time No2 Dress was worn PANIC- rob collar badges from whoever was silly enough to leave their jacket unattended.

Next thought: Is the blue felt attached to the backing plate? If so if would not be seen when worn as the backing plate is out of sight so it is possibly a collector's addition.

Stephen.