1943 dated Windproof Camoflauge Smock army or paratrooper, original/value?

[capbadge]

Hi guys,

Offered this out of the blue by a Canadian collector who "got it off the veterans family", just asking around to see if it is original and what would be a fair price to pay for it. I can get additional pictures if needed, I would like to see the back, if there is any naming and if there is a C->. If this is paratrooper it would work great with my 1st Canadian paratrooper group I already have.


Thanks guys!

[Brigade Piron]

I'm always slightly bemused that people think that these are paratroopers', SAS, special forces or whatever. Maybe it's because it looks slightly like a Denison.

I'm afraid Windproof smocks like this one were standard issue to infantry soldiers (and, of course, others) in the later part of the war, particularly in the Netherlands campaign. Its nice, but nothing to do with paratroopers.

BP

[Tommo]

I'd say £250 max, but prices are increasing these days.

The C-> Is the 'Crow's foot' which is the equivalent of the British War Department stamp but Canadian, I think these smocks were purely British made.

Airborne didn't really wear these, they had the Denison and had no need for these. AB Snipers might have though.

[capbadge]

Thanks for the detailed and quick responses guys


I figured it wasn't paratrooper since it didn't have the wings or wasn't the same pattern, but wanted to put it out there anyway in case I was wrong (often am ). Brigade Piron your right, they do look similar to the denison!

I really like it and never see them here in Canada, will post pictures more pictures when it arrives. I suppose these are heavily faked too?

[Colin S]

While mainly issued to line infantry in the 1944-45 NW Europe campaign, these camouflage windproof smocks were also used by the SAS, alongside Denison smocks, as photos from the later stages of the Italian campaign confirm.

As with all 'Special Forces' items, these are being reproduced, but yours looks good.

[Brigade Piron]

Colin, you don't happen to have the pics you mention of the SAS using them do you? There was a discussion on a WW2 reenacting forum and the consensus reached was that the (identical) sand-coloured one was used by special forces, but the camouflaged was not.

If you have pics, I'd be really interested to see them as they'd shed more light onto the topic.

[Tommo]

Yes I do, worn by a member of 2 SAS NW Europe, 1945.

Will post later.

[HamandJam]

See link of 2nd SAS group in Italy wearing wind proofs.

http://www.specialforcesroh.com/gallery/file4003.jpg

I do agree though that mostly SAS wore the denison smock.

JB

Originally Posted by Brigade Piron

Colin, you don't happen to have the pics you mention of the SAS using them do you? There was a discussion on a WW2 reenacting forum and the consensus reached was that the (identical) sand-coloured one was used by special forces, but the camouflaged was not.

If you have pics, I'd be really interested to see them as they'd shed more light onto the topic.

[Brigade Piron]

Fair 'nuf. That's quite clear.

[Arnhemjim]

For whatever it is worth attached find a pair of photographs from, Uniforms Illustrated No. 13 BRITISH SPECIAL FORCES 1945 to the Present, J.G. Shortt, Arms & Armour, 1986 (p.44 and inside front cover). Book also contains several other pictures of Special Air Service personnel as well as Royal Marine Commandos in same smock, including SBS Swimmer-Canoeists as shown. Also concur with the current estimated value of smock alone at about 250 Pds (UK). Smocks in good to excellent condition are harder to find than the trousers (usually found in better condition), and may command a premium.
Regards,
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

[HamandJam]

As mentioned in some earlier threads the wind proof trousers were highly unpopular as they made too much noise when walking

JB

Originally Posted by Arnhemjim

For whatever it is worth attached find a pair of photographs from, Uniforms Illustrated No. 13 BRITISH SPECIAL FORCES 1945 to the Present, J.G. Shortt, Arms & Armour, 1986 (p.44 and inside front cover). Book also contains several other pictures of Special Air Service personnel as well as Royal Marine Commandos in same smock, including SBS Swimmer-Canoeists as shown. Also concur with the current estimated value of smock alone at about 250 Pds (UK). Smocks in good to excellent condition are harder to find than the trousers (usually found in better condition), and may command a premium.
Regards,
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

[revdougal]

I was issued with windproof smock and trousers of this pattern when arriving for duty in BAOR in Oct 1959, and were in continuous use until I left in Aug 1963.
The trousers have long disappeared, but the smock is still worn on the bike. It is wearing well! And I have been asked on a number of occasions, "And when were you with SAS?"

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by Arnhemjim

For whatever it is worth attached find a pair of photographs from, Uniforms Illustrated No. 13 BRITISH SPECIAL FORCES 1945 to the Present, J.G. Shortt, Arms & Armour, 1986 (p.44 and inside front cover). Book also contains several other pictures of Special Air Service personnel as well as Royal Marine Commandos in same smock, including SBS Swimmer-Canoeists as shown. Also concur with the current estimated value of smock alone at about 250 Pds (UK). Smocks in good to excellent condition are harder to find than the trousers (usually found in better condition), and may command a premium.
Regards,
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

Both photos show smocks modified post war with a zipper.

Rgds,

Thomas.

[capbadge]

Finally got the smock in the mail, and it looks great Condition is good with no damage and a nice age to it, I can provide pictures of the back if anyone is interested. Now I need the pants

[Sunray9]

As a Royal Marine serving on HMS Fearless '69 - '70 I 'acquired' one by passing my rum tot to the Storeman of the Amphibious Detachment !! Useful bit of kit, especially on Dartmoor.