Entire collection of WW2 Canadian cap badges offered to me, 8th Reec etc - Page 2 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

barriefield-brian · #16 19-12-11, 11:57 PM

Cant add anything that has not been said except why cant I find deals like that!

There is some nice ones in the group. Cheers Brian

capbadge · #17 19-12-11, 11:58 PM

Alright, here are the 83rd Joliette/ALI tank badges- I am also posting most of the remaining badges, the shoulder flashes, the university badge set, the BIG RED ONE badge and pin (probably fake) as well as the other items and some close ups.

What is that Canadian tank badge with the V called again? Is that an original

?

DavidS · #18 20-12-11, 12:05 AM

FSSF arrows is most likely 1960s vintage, not WWII. Pics of the backs of the Joliette and Argyll Tanks are needed to tell if they are repros. If you can't read TANK in reverse on the Argyll LI back, it is a repro, but you know that

capbadge · #19 20-12-11, 12:44 AM

Of course I didn't take pictures of the backs of most of the loose badges including those two....

, will need another trip up to see them later anyway. I wonder if the loose cloth titles are mostly good? I really need to remember the golden rule, front and back!

Bill A · #20 20-12-11, 12:51 AM

The cloth on the most looks good. The printed Chaplain Service is a nice piece. The PA & B Vol is a scarcer title. The RCMP title looks sketchy. A look at the back of that one is needed.

Bill A · #21 20-12-11, 01:48 PM

I can't make out the mm on the FSSF arrows, but Joyce's Crimson Spearhead indicates that Meyer Insignia made the pin back crossed arrows in the 60's and they were maker marked. The other cross arrows to the FSSF are not maker marked.

capbadge · #22 20-12-11, 04:45 PM

If I remember correctly the makers mark had "NEW YORK" on the bottom half of the text.

Its funny, I put up almost all of the sellers rare German items on a military forum for research, and EVERY last item was fake. Every one of them. I am suspicious that he was a victim of fraud from a seller or several sellers somewhere in Alberta, as well as a few of the auctions here who knowingly sold a fake German jacket to him for well over $1000. I have yet to research his Victorian British Medals, which I know are real, but I can't help but be surprised that so much of the collection is fake mixed with rare originals, it doesn't add up. I guess research really pays!

Bill A · #23 20-12-11, 05:16 PM

It does add up. Seeding the good with the bad is one of the best ways going to "hide" fraudulent practices. Buying certain items on line is dangerous. Especially without having a lot of prior experience handling material. One of the best educations a collector can get is by going to shows, to other collectors, museums etc and seeing and handling the material. The current approach of e-collecting leaves a lot to be desired. As we see on the Forum all the time, suspect offerings can be knowingly or unknowingly sold on-line, and it is up to the buyer to know their stuff. Far too often it appears that there is little cavet emptor being applied.

DavidS · #24 20-12-11, 05:16 PM

Re the FSSF crossed arrows, the pimples on the clutch pin backs are an age give-away. These were not added to the clutch pins until after 1947. Meyer marks are also datable based on the appearance (raised shield/shield-name combination/ref. numbers, etc.). Checking the US Militaria Forum should find you some decent info on that. The arrows also seem to me not as wide as the late war/immediate post-war arrows.

As for a collector getting taken to the repro-cleaners by a dealer or dealers, I'm not surprised, especially when it's a novice or uninformed collector with money, desire, a woody on for an instant collection, and reliance on the 'expertise' of 'experts' (or at least on their decency). Caveat emptor is one applicable cliche. But I favour the 'we all know what we are, we're just negotiating price' description of these folks, myself.

There was an old-timer I knew who bought a similar 'complete' Canadian collection for big, big bucks from a 'reputable' (and herein unnamed) dealer which was also complete with the repro Can Paras and 1st APCR badges. As for the Nazi/skin crawler stuff, my personal feeling is the reputability of dealers in those artifacts is often as tainted as the stuff they sell.

DavidS · #25 20-12-11, 06:16 PM

This thread from US Miiitaria Forum is pretty comprehensive for a tutorial on dating Meyer (US) maker marks.

capbadge · #26 20-12-11, 07:49 PM

David,

Thanks again for the info- I was suspicious in the first place but didn't have the reference, excellent site. Bill, I legitimately think the seller didn't know what they were doing and bought good with bad, as there are good badges next to junk ones.

Sorry to ask again but what was the name of that tank badge I posted before, the training one with the upside-down arrow?

DavidS · #27 20-12-11, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capbadge

David,

Thanks again for the info- I was suspicious in the first place but didn't have the reference, excellent site. Bill, I legitimately think the seller didn't know what they were doing and bought good with bad, as there are good badges next to junk ones.

Sorry to ask again but what was the name of that tank badge I posted before, the training one with the upside-down arrow?

Armoured Fighting Vehicles Training Centre (Maz. C56a). Only made by Scully. This one appears fine.

Lampwick · #28 21-12-11, 01:46 PM

If you're a collector and not buying them for resale you should try to get them at a price you're happy with and hang them on the wall and enjoy them. Unless 100% of your visitors are badge experts there's no reason why you shouldn't do this. If you're lucky enough to have originals of some of them just replace them and flog the repros at car boot sales.

capbadge · #29 22-12-11, 12:28 AM

Quote:

If you're a collector and not buying them for resale I'd get them at a price you're happy with and hang them on the wall and enjoy them. Unless 100% of your visitors are badge experts there's no reason why you shouldn't do this. If you're lucky enough to have originals of some of them just replace them and flog the repros at car boot sales.

Good idea- I think at the very least I will try to buy some of the rarer WW1 and WW2 badges and cloth and maybe the University badges for my own collection (love the Chaplain Service), unfortunately the original plan was to buy everything, including his medal and hat collection, but now that so much has been proven fake it might come as a shock to him. I will keep my fingers crossed!

EDIT: The seller was quite surprised that half his collection was fake, especially that the Armored carrier and Paratrooper badges were purchased as originals.

Phillip Herring · #30 22-12-11, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capbadge

Good idea- I think at the very least I will try to buy some of the rarer WW1 and WW2 badges and cloth and maybe the University badges for my own collection (love the Chaplain Service), unfortunately the original plan was to buy everything, including his medal and hat collection, but now that so much has been proven fake it might come as a shock to him. I will keep my fingers crossed!

EDIT: The seller was quite surprised that half his collection was fake, especially that the Armored carrier and Paratrooper badges were purchased as originals.

I think it is unfair to say that half of the collection is fake. There are a few fakes - and I suspect the same fakes will be found in lots of similar collections. I had the fake 1 Can Para and Armoured Carrier cap badges in my collection for close to seven years before I found originals. The key is to learn your badges.

Phil