WO Royal Arms Wrist Badge

[Jelly Terror]

Anybody know when the above was introduced, please?

With thanks,

JT

[blueboy684]

I have a 'Standard' labelled 'Badges, Arm Royal Arms, Gilding Metal' with a Stores No of 22H 349, pattern no 7311 dated 10.7.41.

I suspect that they were in use way before then though!

[grey_green_acorn]

The attached document would suggest 1915 although the large Royal Arms badge was worn on the upper sleeve by Foot Guards Sergeant Majors from an earlier date.

Tim

[GriffMJ]

RSM Crinyion of the 24th (Denbighshire Hussars Yeomanry) Btn, RWF, has one on his sleeve in 1919.

[leigh kitchen]

Is the query about the badges worn on the lower sleeve or is it about the badges being worn on a wrist strap?

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

Is the query about the badges worn on the lower sleeve or is it about the badges being worn on a wrist strap?

Thank you gents. Appreciate your replies.

Quite right, Leigh. Thank you for pointing that out. I should have been more specific.

I was actually asking about the Royal Arms badge worn on the wrist strap, but thinking about it I supppse I’m looking to find out when the Royal Arms was introduced as a badge of rank for WOs, lower sleeve and/or wrist strap.

In addition, were these badges the same size as Royal Arms collar badges, and if so, how might they be distinguished from one another?

JT

[grey_green_acorn]

JT, Have you seen my album? https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...p?albumid=3424


Royal Arms badges in metal were and still are worn on uniform jackets and on both leather and cloth wrist straps. Examples below:

Tim

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

JT, Have you seen my album? https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...p?albumid=3424


Royal Arms badges in metal were and still are worn on uniform jackets and leather and cloth wrist straps. Examples below:

Tim

Thanks Tim.

So if I’ve understood your album write-up, (as per info in post #3) the smaller Royal Arms badge was not in use (below the elbow) by WOs prior to 1915?

[irish]

If I might insert this group in to the conversation. The possible influence of the British military and the use of a Wrist Badge within the Jewish forces.

I would assume this wrist badge to be post WW2, closer to 1948 and or at the point in which the Brigade and it's personnel were no longer considered part of the British Army?

Thanks
Jack

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Thanks Tim.

So if I’ve understood your album write-up, (as per info in post #3) the smaller Royal
Arms badge was not in use (below the elbow) by WOs prior to 1915?

JT, yes I believe the Army Order of 1915 would have introduced the badge in brass/gilding metal with KC and two lugs for wear by WO1s.
The Royal Arms with KC as cap and collar badges for OSD for the General List (K&K 1084) probably pre-dates 1915 and the Royal Arms with QVC (K&K 1128) was worn by the Home Counties, Northern, Southern and Eastern Royal Reserve Regiments raised in 1900.

Tim

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by irish

If I might insert this group in to the conversation. The influence of the British military use of a W.O. Wrist Badge with the Jewish Brigade.

I would assume this wrist badge to be post WW2, closer to 1948 and or at the point in which the Brigade and it's personnel were no longer considered part of the British Army?

Thanks
Jack

A direct result of the British Army, was it Jack? That’s interesting.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

A direct result of the British Army, was it Jack? That’s interesting.

I guess that may be a bit of a leap on my part. the IDF was established in 1948 which pulled together paramiltary and miltant forces that had been in existence since the early 20th century. Jewish forces contributed to both WW1 and WW2 as part of the British Army. So I am again assuming that the British military influence would have been strongest. The usage of a wrist badge may have been a carry over from that influence.

Are there other countries that use this same system outside of the British military? It is unique and I had never seen it before excepting when my interest in British badges began some 20 years ago.

thanks
Jack

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by irish

I guess that may be a bit of a leap on my part. the IDF was established in 1948 which pulled together paramiltary and miltant forces that had been in existence since the early 20th century. Jewish forces contributed to both WW1 and WW2 as part of the British Army. So I would assume that the British military influence would have been strong. The usage of a wrist badge may have been a carry over from that influence.

Are there other countries that use this same system outside of the British military? It is unique and I had never seen it before excepting when my interest in British badges began some 20 years ago.

thanks
Jack

Your first post made me wonder the same thing. Thank you.

[leigh kitchen]

I don't know if the IDF still wear that form of wrist insignia, but senior sergeants / sergeant majors wear / wore it, metal fig leaves, swords, stars of David in wreaths.

[grumpy]

The Royal Arms insignia was introduced by Army Order 174 of 1915 for wear by most of the new WO Class I rank.
It caused several anomalies, one glaring one being the retention by Conductors of the crown in wreath, to most eyes an inferior emblem. This was rectified in 1918, along with several others, such as RQMSs being indistinguishable from CSMs in the period 1915 to 1918.

I am not sure if a gilding metal version was authorised for wear by the RACD during the Great War, not having seen a convincing photograph in wear.