Tyneside Scottish badge - opinions

[Wellington132]

Cheers Luke - that's good to hear.

Regards,

Mike

[hindoostan]

I just took delivery of this badge today. All the other badges in the lot were genuine with blow holes, strong sliders so from the above comments this could be fake? It has long old lugs, the badge is slightly bowed, heavy with good definition. Strange this is the only badge out of the lot which is fake?

[gb64]

One out of them all not a bad day, yes this one is a fake one unfortunately, so called “angry ferret “ type, along with the very straight front legs and portcullis nearly closed .

Gerard

[hindoostan]

Thanks Gerard,
really odd that, everything else in the lot is WW1 vintage, cap badges, school medals, coronation medals, sweethearts, buttons.
Ah well one duffer out of the lot is not bad, better than my usual efforts.

Cheers

John

[dubaiguy]

I probably haven't been paying that much attention, but just reading Mike's post and the answers given, I've just happened to notice that I have a 2nd pattern (lion half in tower) badge from a slightly different die to Mike's.

Now that I'm looking there are a number of slight differences, but the obvious stand-out is that the bottom of the flag staff almost touches the second protrusion on the left thistle leaf. This can be seen in my photo. On Mikes and the one in KK and all the others I'm now looking at, the bottom of the staff is closer to the first leaf protrusion.

I don't think my variant is hokey or at least I hope it's not, but the variance leaves a hanging question mark...............

Mark

[Alan O]

I too ahve 2 variants of this badge. One has hexagonal lugs.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by gb64

One out of them all not a bad day, yes this one is a fake one unfortunately, so called “angry ferret “ type, along with the very straight front legs and portcullis nearly closed .

Gerard

Not so.

I did an in-depth post some time ago on the ‘angry ferret’, however, it wasn’t moved despite my asking from the sales thread it was on so has been deleted.

It is not fake but is potentially a true restrike. Both KK and Gaylor (1st edition) show the ‘angry ferret’ in their books.

To think either would struggle obtaining the most common Pals badge and both be fooled by what at the time would have been a brand new out and out fake is, I think, unrealistic.

Restrikes generally lack the thistle voids and are found with loop fixings whereas originals are generally voided and have a stout steel pin.

Edit: added illustrations from Gaylor 1st edition and KK Vol 1.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by dubaiguy

I probably haven't been paying that much attention, but just reading Mike's post and the answers given, I've just happened to notice that I have a 2nd pattern (lion half in tower) badge from a slightly different die to Mike's.

Now that I'm looking there are a number of slight differences, but the obvious stand-out is that the bottom of the flag staff almost touches the second protrusion on the left thistle leaf. This can be seen in my photo. On Mikes and the one in KK and all the others I'm now looking at, the bottom of the staff is closer to the first leaf protrusion.

I don't think my variant is hokey or at least I hope it's not, but the variance leaves a hanging question mark...............

Mark

Your badge is genuine and a nice variant I have been seeking for some time. These are typically very deeply struck and scarcer than the other demi lion die.

I’ll gladly take it off your hands Mark.

[dubaiguy]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Your badge is genuine and a nice variant I have been seeking for some time. These are typically very deeply struck and scarcer than the other demi lion die.

I’ll gladly take it off your hands Mark.

Thanks Alan and Luke - immediate relief.
Luke it is very deeply struck as you say.
Now if you'd told me it was a Marsh abortion and I'd been conned, I'd have sent it to you in tomorrow's post for free. Unfortunately though, you've now told me it's good and even worse that you're looking for one! Hate to disappoint, but sorry mate - it ain't Christmas yet and you've lucked out......

Seriously, thanks for the confirmation, it's very much appreciated and really good to know.
Mark

[Wellington132]

Morning all,

Some really useful information !

Mark, just for future ref, your demi-lion badge - could you post a photo of the rear please ?

Also, would members offer their thoughts on 3 other TS cap badges I have please.

Cheers,

Mike

[dubaiguy]

Originally Posted by Wellington132

Mark, just for future ref, your demi-lion badge - could you post a photo of the rear please ?

Mike as requested images of the reverse.
Mark

[Neil s]

There are lots of threads on Tyneside Scottish badges but it can be quite difficult to find the variant you are looking for I believe these are correct even the hated angry ferret
First pattern Nov 1914
IMG_20221112_140059.jpgIMG_20221112_140127.jpg

Second pattern early 1915 two variations first two angry ferret but correctly voided the type widely restruck
IMG_20221112_140157.jpgIMG_20221112_140228.jpgIMG_20221112_140512.jpgIMG_20221112_140451.jpgIMG_20221112_140717.jpgIMG_20221112_140648.jpg

Third pattern late 1915
IMG_20221112_140925.jpgIMG_20221112_140901.jpg

Fourth pattern 1916 two variations second very deeply struck
IMG_20221112_141026.jpgIMG_20221112_140959.jpgIMG_20221208_171717.jpgIMG_20221208_171653.jpg

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Wellington132

Morning all,

Some really useful information !

Mark, just for future ref, your demi-lion badge - could you post a photo of the rear please ?

Also, would members offer their thoughts on 3 other TS cap badges I have please.

Cheers,

Mike

I’m sure you are aware the ‘lion rampant’ middle badge was re adopted and used long after WW1 and even into modernity by some units. Doubtless it has been restruck from the numbers seen with poorer reverse detail, modern loops, readily available from eBay repro sellers…. à la the example below.

Personally I’m of the belief the WW1 examples are on stout steel pins, very similar to those seen on the other WW1 patterns. My badge on the red background.

For the later examples I was told long ago to seek those that had long ‘growing’ loops with gold braze and crisp reverse detail.

Your second and fourth patterns are genine.

[Wellington132]

Good evening all,

Mark, Neil and Luke, many thanks for your replies, photos and information. This has been really helpful and has made the subject much clearer.

Regards, Mike

[Alan O]

The Tyneside Scottish was disbanded at the end of WW1 but re-raised in WW2. The s/p WW2 badge was the full lion with one leg raised on lugs. Post WW2 the badge was worn by both TA and cadets and still wear it today. The angry ferret restrike has been worn by the cadets who I assume buy them as it is not an issued badge anymore.