British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum  

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Airborne, Elite and Special Forces Insignia

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25-04-12, 04:01 PM
actionoke actionoke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: johannesburg,South Africa
Posts: 346
Default 3rd SAS UNIFORM

Got this lot with beret, tunic shirt and tie.The original documents will follow from the man who was in the 3rd SAS in France 1944.All is as I got it from the veteran s family.Enjoy.The only question I have is why is his SAS wing sown below his medals and not above.Was this the way the French did things?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1120515.jpg (83.6 KB, 204 views)
File Type: jpg P1120526.jpg (80.9 KB, 222 views)
File Type: jpg P1120529.jpg (97.7 KB, 180 views)
File Type: jpg P1120530.jpg (69.8 KB, 150 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25-04-12, 04:03 PM
actionoke actionoke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: johannesburg,South Africa
Posts: 346
Default

the metal wing I think is post war as the man carried on in the French armed forces post war and must have added them?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25-04-12, 05:26 PM
jdr jdr is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 563
Default

I hope the veteran's family provided you with a receipt
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 25-04-12, 06:00 PM
David Tremain's Avatar
David Tremain David Tremain is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,886
Default

Not sure why he wouldn't have worn an SAS beret badge instead of the Paras.
David
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25-04-12, 07:26 PM
actionoke actionoke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: johannesburg,South Africa
Posts: 346
Default

French wore the British beret in 1944 with the crown broken off.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25-04-12, 07:43 PM
HamandJam's Avatar
HamandJam HamandJam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,066
Default

I think 4th French SAS wore a black beret with the broken off para badge. 3rd SAS I think wore maroon with the cloth who dares wins badge badge.

I find it strange there are also no 3rd SAS titles on this BD but HQ SAS title.

I hate to say but not convinced about this uniform/set.

JB

Quote:
Originally Posted by actionoke View Post
French wore the British beret in 1944 with the crown broken off.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25-04-12, 07:59 PM
jdr jdr is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 563
Default

Well JB it doesn't take an expert to see that is a modern beret, a badly badged up uniform with various reproduction insignia!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25-04-12, 08:46 PM
actionoke actionoke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: johannesburg,South Africa
Posts: 346
Default

The beret was worn for the first time officially on 11 November 1944 at a parade ,look it up .The know it all s don t know it all.The French where Not the British and followed their own rules.How can one say its fake without even seeing pics of the interior or close ups etc not very convincing forum if people can make judgement calls like that and shoot it down so easily.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25-04-12, 09:07 PM
Colin S Colin S is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 177
Default 3 SAS Uniform

Both battalions of the French SAS wore a black beret with the Parachute Regiment badge (minus the crown) until late 1944 when they were awarded the right to wear the maroon beret and SAS winged dagger in recognition of their contribution to the D-Day campaign. They never wore a maroon beret and the Parachute Regiment badge. Photographs also confirm the French SAS wore the national titles 'FRANCE' as shoulder titles rather than any SAS title. I'm afraid to say that, to me, this uniform looks like a poorly put together item by someone who has a limited knowledge and jumbled facts.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 25-04-12, 09:24 PM
Unknownsoldier's Avatar
Unknownsoldier Unknownsoldier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sevenoaks, Kent
Posts: 2,126
Default

The French wing looks dogy, as does the SAS wing, not convinced in it myself .....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 25-04-12, 09:38 PM
Colin S Colin S is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 177
Default 3 SAS uniform

Having further considered this uniform, I would also comment that the metal badge is indeed the post war French Air Force test parachutist/ Air Commando paratrooper badge and the tunic appears to be the late 1940/1950s French issue, which would indeed point to a post war item. It could have been worn by a veteran but not as a serving soldier/airman. Immediately post war uniform could be seen with either the 'Forces Libre' cloth wings or the SAS wings worn by wartime veterans but the 'SAS' titles would have no relevance to any post war French unit.

The beret also raises questions. While 3 SAS (also called 3 RCP) did wear their berets pulled to the right in the British manner during World War Two, 4 SAS (2 RCP) wore their berets pulled to the left, as did all post war French para units.

The very poor standard of sewing also seems strange for something worn by a Frenchman, who I would normally expect to have great pride in his appearance.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26-04-12, 05:22 AM
HamandJam's Avatar
HamandJam HamandJam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,066
Default

I think it is time to have a chat with the seller for a refund...

JB
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26-04-12, 05:39 AM
HamandJam's Avatar
HamandJam HamandJam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,066
Default

Colin,

3rd SAS did wear the 3rd SAS shoulder title but 4th SAS did not they wore France S/T, I have seen at leat one wartime pic and a collector friend has a 100% original 3rd SAS BD with 3rd SAS titles. 4th SAS stemmed from
the old hands who served in the desert and really looked down on 3rd as did 1st SAS looked down on 2nd SAS.
JB
http://www.specialforcesroh.com/gall..._image&id=2554

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin S View Post
Both battalions of the French SAS wore a black beret with the Parachute Regiment badge (minus the crown) until late 1944 when they were awarded the right to wear the maroon beret and SAS winged dagger in recognition of their contribution to the D-Day campaign. They never wore a maroon beret and the Parachute Regiment badge. Photographs also confirm the French SAS wore the national titles 'FRANCE' as shoulder titles rather than any SAS title. I'm afraid to say that, to me, this uniform looks like a poorly put together item by someone who has a limited knowledge and jumbled facts.

Last edited by HamandJam; 26-04-12 at 05:55 AM. Reason: Add photo link 3rd SAS
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26-04-12, 07:59 AM
actionoke actionoke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: johannesburg,South Africa
Posts: 346
Default

One of the other uniforms that came in the lot .It is the French Airforce tunic that the men wore before 1945 .I will post all including the ORIGINAL documents and unpublished original photos and the names of the men who owned these tunics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1120535.jpg (95.3 KB, 103 views)
File Type: jpg P1120517.jpg (62.1 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg P1120533.jpg (46.4 KB, 105 views)
File Type: jpg P1120534.jpg (95.8 KB, 118 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13-07-19, 09:14 AM
PLN PLN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamandJam View Post
I think it is time to have a chat with the seller for a refund...

JB
Hope you will excuse me for adding to a old post but to answer, Maybe not:

The green uniform maybe an after WW2 one : The types of different buttons is odd as there is gold, silver (flat so definitely post war) and also air force one at the shoulder.
It maybe some uniform a veteran would have wear after the war (veterans are not collectors and as such do not care what a collector think it should be right).

It is also quite well known that FFL paras used to wear a lot of badges on their uniform and sometime, also on their berets, especially when they went for the maroon one. Obviously, regulation (if any proper one about how to wear badges) was not their strong point to say the least.

The blue uniform is quite convincing as a late war.
FFL para belonged to the air force up to 1945 when they became Army (hence the possibility of a real veteran who would have kept is shoulder AF buttons).
For sure the AF para qualification badge is definitely not WW.

So the question is more are the badges good ones?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:51 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.