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  #1  
Old 19-01-17, 09:06 PM
ianh67military ianh67military is offline
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Default Gordon Highlanders SNCOs & Officers Cap Badges

Whilst recently putting some new acquisitions into the collection, I became surprised at the number of different 3D Gordon Highlanders cap badges I've acquired over the years. All of them different in size/weight/wreath/antlers whatever. Please see below photos of this phenomenon.

Photo 1 front/back has one mounted on a round piece of black silk from a glengarry, the other on tartan. This photo shows the differences very well, with the 2 badges differing in every way. The 1 on black has the owners "NB 120" scratched on.
Photo 2 front back has one mounted on tartan, one not but hallmarked silver. The tartan mounted one has "DODD 41" SCRATCHED ON BACK.
Photo 3 front/back both unmounted. The left one is a frosted silver finish and the right one came with WW2 medals and has a makers mark.
Photo 4 is a cap badge mounted on a presentation targe, so only the front is visible, but came with anodised badges on as well, so modern-ish.

Only one is actually hallmarked silver (Birmingham 1978), one has a MM of "LUDLOW LONDON", some have copper lugs and two have variations of the previous owners name/initials/last 2 or3 (of their Army number) on. Two have bits of tartan on the back, but the bits are actually 2 pieces with the back one cut larger than the front one, but the edges deliberately frayed to look more impressive.

I wonder if the badges can be dated, allocated to specific manufacturers or with the named ones even allocated to specific individuals? Grateful for any comments.

Ian H
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  #2  
Old 19-01-17, 11:21 PM
ianh67military ianh67military is offline
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Final 2 variants, again illustrating just how different the cap badges can be. One is a solid wreath almost joined at top, squashed broad antlers, marked '800' for continental silver on the back and sporting screw fittings, whilst the other is just the opposite. Note also the strengthening behind the ears on the latter, whilst '800' doesn't have the ears attached to the wreath at all.
I guess the 800 one was made in Germany post WW2?

Ian H
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Last edited by ianh67military; 19-01-17 at 11:28 PM.
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  #3  
Old 20-01-17, 07:01 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Stunning badges, thanks for showing them. One of my all-time favourite British Army badges!
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  #4  
Old 23-11-18, 11:29 PM
ianh67military ianh67military is offline
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It's been a while since I originated this thread, but I attach below photos of the front and back of another cap badge that has come into my possession. It is a really heavy badge with a substantial, almost plaid brooch type pin on the back. The main body of the badge is made in 2 parts, but the bottom of the crown, the ears on the side of the head and top joint of the antlers have little stub type pins below that are then soldered onto the backing wreath. This gives a gap between the wreath and the other part larger than any other version I have and clearly visible on the photo on green card. This photo also shows more clearly the damage sustained by the antlers at some time in the past.
At the bottom of the wreath on the back is a manufacturers mark
J.WISE & SON, BIRM
unfortunately no silver hallmarks, nor have I been able to date this yet.

Ian H
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  #5  
Old 24-11-18, 11:58 AM
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These were generally known as staff badges because as well as officers they were authorised for sergeant appointments (of all grades, up to those made warrant officer in 1881) on the battalion HQ staff, e.g. musketry sergeant, sergeant master tailor, sergeant of pioneers, etc. The badges were not publicly funded and for these ‘staff sergeants’, as they were known, had to be purchased under regimental arrangements. Over the years the supplier changed and this led to the variations that you have identified.
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Old 28-11-18, 05:08 PM
cbuehler cbuehler is online now
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Unfortunately there is no way to date most of these badges. Some that have hallmarks or maker marks that are identifiable by period are the only ones that can be dated, otherwise one would have to rely on provenance, which not many have. I believe there were dozens of makers over the years in which these badges were worn, probably many small jeweler firms along with some of the big name makers.

CB

PS, I note that there seems to be far more of these Gordon's 3D badges floating around than the Seaforth's 3D badges.

Last edited by cbuehler; 28-11-18 at 05:18 PM.
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  #7  
Old 28-11-18, 08:14 PM
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well done Ian, I've done exactly the same defining dies for various badges
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  #8  
Old 29-11-18, 12:19 AM
ianh67military ianh67military is offline
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There were 3 more variations at Yate Fair on Sunday that I examined.
There were 2 hallmarked silver ones, one was old and heavy the other modern and thin and light. Quite a difference in price, with the old heavy one being £350 and the other £75.
The final one was a frosted unmarked version, again modern, at £70.

Ian H
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Old 30-11-18, 01:39 PM
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I like the sound of the former, but, for that price, you would certainly expect a pleasing example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianh67military View Post
There were 3 more variations at Yate Fair on Sunday that I examined.
There were 2 hallmarked silver ones, one was old and heavy the other modern and thin and light. Quite a difference in price, with the old heavy one being £350 and the other £75.
The final one was a frosted unmarked version, again modern, at £70.

Ian H
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  #10  
Old 15-05-20, 01:21 PM
ianh67military ianh67military is offline
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Sorry for the delay. Time to put some more pictures up. My new favourite, a stunning badge with features I've not seen before. Unfortunately one of the antlers is missing, but that's what happens when you make beautiful bits of jewelry standard metalwork and give them to the soldierary to go off to war.
I particularly like the way that 6 tiny holes, 2 on one side 4 on the other, have been drilled in the wreath in order to make it look more accurate, on top of the way that some holes have already been cast into the badge. The picture of the back shows this very well against the smooth casting.
No manufactures mark or hallmark unfortunately and with copper loops. Possibly not an officer's.
More badges to follow.
Ian H
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  #11  
Old 16-05-20, 01:54 AM
cbuehler cbuehler is online now
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Here are two of mine. The larger brooched example is by Deakin & Francis, with a die struck wreath and cast stag. The other is unmarked two piece cast.
Age? 20th century is the only answer.
There is also no definitive answer as to what constitutes a senior NCO badge from that of an officer. We can assume that the regiment would not provide hallmarked silver badges to the SNCOs, but we can also be fairly certain that an SNCO who had the funds and wished to purchase one , could wear it if desired. Likewise, silver plated badges were likely more commonly worn by the officers than expensive hallmarked ones.

CB
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  #12  
Old 16-05-20, 02:11 AM
cbuehler cbuehler is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianh67military View Post
It's been a while since I originated this thread, but I attach below photos of the front and back of another cap badge that has come into my possession. It is a really heavy badge with a substantial, almost plaid brooch type pin on the back. The main body of the badge is made in 2 parts, but the bottom of the crown, the ears on the side of the head and top joint of the antlers have little stub type pins below that are then soldered onto the backing wreath. This gives a gap between the wreath and the other part larger than any other version I have and clearly visible on the photo on green card. This photo also shows more clearly the damage sustained by the antlers at some time in the past.
At the bottom of the wreath on the back is a manufacturers mark
J.WISE & SON, BIRM
unfortunately no silver hallmarks, nor have I been able to date this yet.

Ian H
I think this badge may be ww1 era. The maker was an old jeweller and military outfitter that does not seem to be around in ww2.

CB
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  #13  
Old 19-05-20, 02:09 PM
ianh67military ianh67military is offline
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A pair of identical badges bought from an estate on e###. One is in a silver finish, the other is looking far more heavily used, with the initial shine polished off and a flattened nose.
The most obvious identifier on these 2 badges are the 2 casting marks/injection moulding marks showing on the back. One at the very base of the wreath, the other behind the crown at the bottom of the stags neck. The stags head looks like a single piece inc antlers, that has been welded/soldered onto the wreath at 4 or 5 points on the crown/coronet and then under the antlers. Strangely the worn badge has one of the ears attached to the wreath also.
I would guess that these 2 were worn just before the Regiment lost it's cap badge to the Royal Regiment of Scotland, as the quality seen on earlier badges has been lost. No makers marks anywhere, just 2 obvious rough casting marks, looking almost unfinished.
Ian H
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  #14  
Old 20-05-20, 05:26 PM
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Hello,
from my collection, an extremely fine badge, with sharp strike and heavy age toning, in unmarked silver with the marks ;
CLARK & JOSS
ABERDEEN

(Watchmakers and Jewellers , 57 Rosemount Viaduc, Aberdeen from 1898 to 1900)

I have also the plaid brooch with the same marks .
regards
Jean-Marie
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  #15  
Old 21-05-20, 12:47 AM
cbuehler cbuehler is online now
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That is an exceptionally nice badge Jean-Marie. Quality varies considerably in these badges, with the later examples rarely comparable with the earlier ones.

CB
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