Tower Hamlet Rifles

[wardog]

I would like to see some pictures of this badge front and back and would like advice on what to look for. Would also be interested in known copies, and the rough price of a good one. Thanks, Paul.

[Luke H]

I think this is the badge you're after if somewhat a slightly rubbed example.

This particular example is available from a dealer with a rather decrepid website as he was out of the UK for a time. His price for this one due to it being rubbed was £25 but I think that may be a bit steep.

If you want I could PM you his email.

Luke

[jeanpit-frenchy]

here is my badge

genuine ???? strange inscription on slider "ENGLAND"

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by jeanpit-frenchy

here is my badge

genuine ???? strange inscription on slider "ENGLAND"

Jean-pit,

That's a bog standard rifle brigade, if you look at the one I posted a picture of you'll see where the enscription 'rifle brigade' is on the centre circle is it actuall reads 'tower hamlets rifles * the rifle brigade' as its a London regiment variation of the badge.

As for yours I'm afraid its a restrike, I'm yet to come across a slider marked ENGLAND where the badge is original, these fakes appeared on ebay about the same time as a buch of others with a War Department arrow on ebay, sorry for the bad news .

Luke

[jeanpit-frenchy]

Originally Posted by Paddy McGinty

Jean-pit,

That's a bog standard rifle brigade, if you look at the one I posted a picture of you'll see where the enscription 'rifle brigade' is on the centre circle is it actuall reads 'tower hamlets rifles * the rifle brigade' as its a London regiment variation of the badge.

As for yours I'm afraid its a restrike, I'm yet to come across a slider marked ENGLAND where the badge is original, these fakes appeared on ebay about the same time as a buch of others with a War Department arrow on ebay, sorry for the bad news .

Luke

for the price .....it couldnt be genuine....i'll conserve it until i found a "good" badge .....

thank you for confirmation

[Alan O]

The Tower Hamlets is especiallyrare as the Bn was raised in 1937 from the old 17th london but suffered badly in NAfrica in 1941 and was effectively disbanded so the badge was only worn for 4 -5 years. I saw a very badly polished one in Cardiff recently for £7. Good unworn ones go for £70. If anyone wants it as a gap filler I will look in when I go back next.

Alan

[Sonofacqms]

These sliders along with the accompanying badges are restrikes, they are not so common these days, but in the mid 70's they were abundant.
As for the 17th London (Tower Hamlets) a very scarce badge . . !
I actually knew a vet, who said he had a plastic Tower Hamlets badge, I've never seen or heard of one apart from his, but keep your eyes on Bosley's, they may get one for sale.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

As for the 17th London (Tower Hamlets) a very scarce badge . . !
I actually knew a vet, who said he had a plastic Tower Hamlets badge, I've never seen or heard of one apart from his, but keep your eyes on Bosley's, they may get one for sale.

I've never heard of one myself but worth keeping a look out. I paid quite a bit for this one as it was the last London badge I wanted other than cord bosses and variations, etc. Since then though I must have had at least three for under a tenner and pointed others in their direction when they've come up on ebay. Copies do exist but every good one I know of has had the longish slider and the two little booby shapes above the bottom scroll must be voided.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

These sliders along with the accompanying badges are restrikes, they are not so common these days, but in the mid 70's they were abundant.
As for the 17th London (Tower Hamlets) a very scarce badge . . !
I actually knew a vet, who said he had a plastic Tower Hamlets badge, I've never seen or heard of one apart from his, but keep your eyes on Bosley's, they may get one for sale.

I have never bought one of these as I was always suspicious of such a mark. Thank you for the information and I shall continue to avoid them.

As for a plastic Tower Hamlets badge, well that would be a new one. Bearing in mind they only made the majority of the Plastics in the 1000s and they only really came in in 1942-3 after the bn was gone, I would not have thought one existed as no other London Regt had a plastic variant.

However Bosleys has just sold a previously unknown Monmouths (presumably from the Hugh king collection) so you never know. Unlike the THs, the Monmouths had several Bns and I presume Home Guard units. The Cambridgeshire badge was also made in plastics for their local Home Guard units as both Bns were in the fall of Singapore.

The plastic RB is rare enough and I wonder if he was getting the 2 confused?

Alan

[KLR]

There is certainly no plastic TH Bn - or for that matter a Mon Rgt ! - in the Min of Supply lists as reproduced by Marcus Cotton in Militaria Mag 1995. Though it might be worth checking the originals at Kew to see if there were any TA units. But when I looked through the lists last year I certainly didn't see any when I was checking for King's Rgt TA Bns.
Julian

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

.

However Bosleys has just sold a previously unknown Monmouths (presumably from the Hugh king collection) so you never know. Unlike the THs, the Monmouths had several Bns and I presume Home Guard units.


Alan

Just a thought. I don't have my books here but hadn't the Monmouths started wearing the w/m dragon inside the wreath badge after WW1?

[Alan O]

The First Battalion originally wore a wm dragon and after WW1 adopted the wreath version with all the battlescrolls.

The 2nd-4th bns wore the all brass version and continued to do so post war. From memory the 4th Bn became Gunners and adopted the RA badge but I would have to check.

I was surprised at the Monmouths for the same reason as KLR states, in that there is no mention in Marcus Cotton's article derived from the Min of Supply records. Could it have been a one off trial version (the first pattern RAC that also surfaced at Bosleys falls into the same category as production was not authorised until 1942 for any plastic badge yet the RAC in wreath badge was superceded by the the mailed fist badge by then and the plastic verison of that was not made until 1944 -(source Marcus Cotton production figures)), that Hugh King got hold of but did not go into general production.

The only TA units that had plastic badges of their own as far as I know are the Camebridgeshires as mentioned earlier and the Buckinghamshire Bn of the Ox and Bucks LI. Again I suspect that the Home Guard were the main wearers.

Alan

[Sonofacqms]

It's a very interesting subject plastic badges, I don't know much about records, but bearing in mind the situation 1940-42 it's possible that some of the paperwork was lost in the blitz. My Uncles WWI records were lost along no doubt with many others and as far as I know his medals lay gathering dust at Droitwich. My cousin tried to claim them without success.
The veteran who told me about the Tower Hamlets in the pub had been drinking and I did query whether it was a Rifle Brigade cap badge he had and not Tower Hamlets. No, he said THR and who was I to argue!
As for the 1st pattern RAC none of the badges that Bosleys have had for sale have had any fixings, strange considering that pattern of badge was not used.
Also, Bosleys always seem to attribute anything that came from Hugh King's collection to him, so he was right when he used to say that people think he had every badge!
My Father-in Law told me that he had a plastic Cambridgeshire badge issued before the Btn sailed for Singapore in October 1941, they were issued with the badge which was minus the "e" earlier, in I think 1940, the badges were then withdrawn and issued to the Home Guard.

[2747andy]

Big Piers
I thought I owed you one after calling you Bagpiper? It's the drugs honest! lol

I would not get hung up about the length of the slider as they are often trimmed down anyway! The detail is what worries me (I've been told off about saying that) the ribbon loops above the Prince C Scroll at the base look as though they've not been punched out too crisply and the honours are worn (agreed this could be from age and polish). Here's a good one to compare against! I think a Genuine one would cost you in the region of £100 (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong). £20 for what is possibly a copy? (I'd give it a miss).

All the best!

Andy

[Viletone]

Looking at your pictures is exactly what I meant by a slider protruding below the bottom of the badge. Every good version I've had or seen of this pattern has a longer than usual slider.