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#106
10-02-22, 12:53 PM
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#107
10-02-22, 01:13 PM
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Couldn’t agree more , it’s a hobby and should be enjoyed as such ,otherwise ( it seems to me ) there is little point in collecting anything .
( as many people (including the famous Reg Harvey ) have said in the past we are merely the temporary custodians of our collections ) P.
__________________
Interested in all aspects of militaria/military history but especially insignia and history of non regular units with a Liverpool connection Members welcome in my private Facebook group “The Kings Liverpool Regiment ( 1685-1958 )”
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#108
10-02-22, 01:24 PM
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Episodes like this make me a little sad, and apprehensive for the hobby.
Apprehensive because there is little doubt that for certain types of items like these, and with margins like that, the fakery will be taken to the next level and beyond. If works of art can hang on internationally renowned gallery walls and still prompt debate as to authenticity and, perhaps, ultimately be shown to be fakes then all the diligence, expertise knowhow, experience and 'feel' that dedicated collectors - like Mike above and many more - will be challenged as never before. Potentially everything is fakable with extreme diligence, and with these types of margins, there's no doubt it will be applied, resulting in items that will forever have a question mark over them. Sad because collecting areas within the hobby are becoming inaccessible for the person of modest means. Jon
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#109
10-02-22, 02:53 PM
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Come on folks. Don’t go away yet……………….. should we not wait for safe delivery yet? It also might be interesting to read the seller/buyer feedback comments. Just musing, that’s all. Good luck to the successful bidder. D.J.
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#110
10-02-22, 02:54 PM
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At the end of the day, the buyer might have waited 20 years for this badge to finally fill that gap in his collection, and so willing to pay for it. But its true, if you can make it you can fake it - be it passports or military insignia.
But as has been said, research is the key. No one is infallible but with knowledge you can cut out 99.99% of suspect items. Always go on the item not the back story, and be happy with something before paying, even if it means asking for others advice. I often get asked for my opinions from a few friends, and have also had one or two major sellers and auction houses ask for my help in the past. I knew of an American in the last few years who threw absolutely stupid sums of money at badges, just to win them, often three or four times the value, and 18 months later he has sold the Lot. Unfortunately the dealer who bought them had to shell out a pile to acquire them. But I recall once he bought an aircrew wing from me, at only about £20.00, but having received it mailed me a few weeks later to ask for his money back as he had been told it was a repro. I said 'Sure, but that's odd because it came from the such and such collection.' Oh, in that case I'll keep it then' he replied. Someone willing to throw cash around when he clearly didn't know his subject...
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#111
10-02-22, 02:58 PM
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Jon
I completely agree and that is why 3rd Reich collecting and increasingly British SF collecting is in state that it is. I have no interest in any of it and get far more enjoyment researching the mundanity of Cadet Corps and OTCs. there are cadet badges of which I have seen scare cadet badge where only one or 2 examples have come up for sale in over 20 years but even those fortunately are modestly priced. Alan
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#112
10-02-22, 03:14 PM
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Absolutely Alan, the direct parallel is with Third Reich collecting, which went wonky about 20 years ago. I know several venerable collectors in that field who gave up on it some years ago because the faking on some sectors became so good, and these are guys who put a hell of a lot of diligence into their hobby - obsessives in fact.
Padre - yes, research is the key, of course. However the point I'm making is that the 99.99% figure you cite will drop dramatically if this persists, leaving the most experienced collectors unsure. Mike has 60 years in the hobby, I have 40 and I am sure you have very many yourself, but this sort of thing will change the hobby for ever in my opinion as the standard of fakery will leave even most diligent and experienced collectors with doubt in their mind.
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#114
10-02-22, 04:11 PM
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The future?
Just watch out for one of these appearing in a provincial auction house with a lot of WWII era cloth badges.
Need I say more . . ! Rob
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#115
10-02-22, 04:20 PM
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#117
10-02-22, 04:39 PM
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I love how positive every one is!!!
Have to say I agree with Mike and Padre, knowledge through research is the key. Never mind a £7.9k patch if it wasn’t for this forum I’m sure most would all have dozens or hundred of repros in our collections of a reasonably equatable value. Yes new and in some cases better repros will come to pass but I don’t think the 99.9% statistic will change. Reason being the very nature of manufacturing will always lead to a difference of some kind. These difference may be drastic or small. In either case in the mega pixel camera/high definition scanner and internet age with so much information sharing with experienced collectors, access to reference material and primary source research ‘new’ variants hitting the market invariably get spotted and flagged e.g. Gaunt plaque RNDs, Auxiliary HG enamel badges, int.militaria’s silver copies. Like Alan I get as much pleasure out of a £20 WW1 eco as anything else, but, if the buyer of this patch is happy and it fills a long awaited gap then good luck to him or her.
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#118
10-02-22, 05:18 PM
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I saw American airborne go through the roof when SPR came out, and then even more so when BoB was aired. Funny how a movie or series can inspire some collectors to jump into new areas, which raises the demand, which raises the prices. Then they lose interest or a different movie has come out and they sell off the previous lot which with a new supply now available, the market softens.
In closing I know a fellow who sold his house and moved into an apartment to get the money needed to buy a Blue Max from the family. Cannot fathom that! I have never tried to get into high end items because I have never had the funds to do so. Give me a £3 patch or badge that fits in my collection, and I am as happy as if it were a £200 patch or badge. I personally am quite happy with collecting in my area and have a want list that will probably take more time than I have to ever get them all. But it is fun, and is definitely hobby. I really like eh comment/statement made several times on the forum - "we are just the current custodians". Terry
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#119
10-02-22, 06:13 PM
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One of the most extraordinary fake stories I over heard, was a few years ago at War and Peace. A trader of 3rd Reich medals and uniform etc, was explaining to a punter how he had been on a buying trip in Poland. He was driving down a fairly rural road when he passed a gang of road workers repairing the road surface, gravel, hot tarmac, dirty, muddy, sweaty work - the whole nine yards. He screatched his car to a halt when he noticed that all the workers were wearing black wrap around Nazi armoured crew jackets, with various insignia. The jackets of course were filthy, 'worn' and covered in oil etc. He asked to examine one and found it was extraordinarily good workmanship, very realistic looking, but to his well experienced eye, copies. When he asked where they got them from, they explained that they were wearing them for a few weeks for a guy who basically dropped them a few crates of beer.
Hey presto, worn, rubbed, with the odd hole, genuine sweat marks, smelly etc. You genuinely couldn't make this stuff up!
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