British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Other Commonwealth Military Insignia > New Zealand Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 25-05-18, 03:16 PM
Rob Miller's Avatar
Rob Miller Rob Miller is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Devonshire
Posts: 2,190
Default

Thank you James

Rob
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 25-05-18, 04:09 PM
Cribyn's Avatar
Cribyn Cribyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales
Posts: 1,718
Default

I have been able to find a little bit of basic information about 'The New Zealand Clothing Factory' from some New Zealand websites.

They were the first clothing factory in New Zealand, set up in 1873 by a "German-born merchant Bendix Hallenstein (1835-1905) ..... to supply his stores .... offering shoppers .... a single garment at wholesale price". At some point they obviously expanded to take on military contracts.

They were clearly garment/uniform manufacturers but I suspect that they did not make the buttons themselves but imported them in sufficient quantity to persuade the actual maker to use their name as the backmark. Can anyone confirm this and say where they got the buttons from?

Roger
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 27-05-18, 08:04 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cribyn View Post
I have been able to find a little bit of basic information about 'The New Zealand Clothing Factory' from some New Zealand websites.

They were the first clothing factory in New Zealand, set up in 1873 by a "German-born merchant Bendix Hallenstein (1835-1905) ..... to supply his stores .... offering shoppers .... a single garment at wholesale price". At some point they obviously expanded to take on military contracts.

They were clearly garment/uniform manufacturers but I suspect that they did not make the buttons themselves but imported them in sufficient quantity to persuade the actual maker to use their name as the backmark. Can anyone confirm this and say where they got the buttons from?

Roger
There is evidence that some small NZ tailoring businesses imported their own button making machines into NZ in the 1880s, so if you take into account that the Hallenstein Brothers were the largest uniform supplier to the NZ Volunteer forces, I think it likely HB would have had their own button making machine.

However, IMO it is most likely the components for HB to make a button, such as the shank, backing plate and the front blank, all would have been imported from England.
The question is who supplied HB with dies to press the blank plates into planchets, were the dies made in NZ or were they imported from England?
Whatever the answer is the Hallenstein Brothers were only one of many button makers to manufacture buttons for the NZ military.

The following picture shows my J. R Gaunt made 1911 NZA Forces button, a Birmingham made 1911 to 1921 NZ Territorial Artillery button and my Gaunt made post 1911 Dress/Undress Artillery gun button.
As yet I have not been able to find an exact date when the "NZ" was added to the gun button, the earliest uniform that I have seen so far is a 1930s blue artillery jacket.



The following picture shows my 1923 NZ Mess Dress Artillery ball button.



My 1947 pattern NZ Dress/Undress Artillery gun button and 1954 pattern NZ Artillery anodised gun button.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27-05-18, 09:03 AM
Cribyn's Avatar
Cribyn Cribyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales
Posts: 1,718
Default

Very interesting information and photos, thank you for posting.

Roger
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 28-02-22, 05:27 AM
omok1 omok1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 44
Default RNAV Button

This gilt and silver RNAV button also worn in New Zealand
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RNAV.jpg (88.0 KB, 17 views)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-03-22, 07:52 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omok1 View Post
This gilt and silver RNAV button also worn in New Zealand
The RNAV was British, so quite possible it was worn by a British officer serving in New Zealand.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-03-22, 06:36 PM
omok1 omok1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 44
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post
The RNAV was British, so quite possible it was worn by a British officer serving in New Zealand.
Check out Captain-Commandant Emilius Le Roy, definately worn in NZ, he was an Officer of the New Zealand Volunteers. There is no way he was British Officer serving here

https://navymuseum.co.nz/explore/by-...milius-le-roy/

Download image of his cased epaulettes, buttons can be clearly seen, along with the bullion badges
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-03-22, 01:54 AM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 451
Default

The NZ Volunteer Dress Regulation of 1882 (page 83) para 251 says that the NAV are to have the same uniform as the RNAV (page 209). This states that the buttons, para 111, are RN-AV in silver with gilt crown and anchor.

The NZ1889 regulations (page 102) para 7 state that the buttons are RN pattern with the letters N.A.V. in old English. Button to be gilt.

The NZ1895 regulations (page 127) NAV (page 132) are the same pattern as the 1889 button.

The only evidence that I have found of metal military buttons being made in NZ is from Robert in Palmerston North who had dies and produced buttons for a short period but the dies were stolen.

Just because a button has a NZ back stamp does not mean it was made here. Companies would have paid more to have their companies name on the rear.

It is folklore to think that because a button has a NZ clothing manufacturer and/or retailers name on the rear that is was made here!

Barry
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-03-22, 02:04 AM
omok1 omok1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 44
Default

Thanks Barry, very informative. As Commandant Le Roy retired before the later 1889 regulations this accounts for his buttons and other RNAV insignia. Most images of NAV in NZ seem to date from the late 1880s into 1890s so will feature the later NAV insignia.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.