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  #1  
Old 25-09-09, 11:14 PM
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davidguthrie davidguthrie is offline
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Default Fife & Forfar Yeomanry badge, is it good?

I've got a Fife & Forfar Yeomanry badge I bought last year when I just started gaining an interest in Scottish badges. At the time I didn't know about all the restrikes/repros out there, so I assumed it was "good". But now after reading a lot about badges on this site, not so sure any more. I'm hoping it's original of course, hesitated on posting it for comments, but would rather know the truth. It was listed as "W.W.I. Scottish Army ( Yeomanry ) badge (The Fifeshire and Forfarshire Yeomanry)" when I bought it (yes, bought it on eBay).

Hoping some of the badge experts out there will give it to me straight (but please be gentle). Is it original? If not, what's the giveaway?

Thanks,
David

By the way, I've also got a Scots Guards badge I've listed separately since Guards is a separate category, hoping to get some comments on it as well.
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  #2  
Old 28-09-09, 09:31 PM
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erracht erracht is offline
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I confess to being no authority on this matter, but I can relate the traits I look for in a FFY badge.

1. Avoid the "stargazer thane" - the one with the abnormally large eyes and the deofrmed nose.

2. Look for a helmet visor to protrude away from the helmet and actually tough the sword.

3. Look for a little extra detail in the thane's plume as well as a void between it and the top of the helmet

4. Look for the mount's rear hooves to rest in the ground rather than touching atop it.

Attached is a (rather poor!) scan of one of mine that I feel is genuine. Welcoming any comments!

Dean
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  #3  
Old 29-09-09, 11:58 AM
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http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...8&d=1203092420

This is a 100% genuine one from the 1940s for comparsion. Bear in mind that the same badge was worn for a number of years so there will be variances.

I suspect that yours compares a little too closely to the fakes sold on ebay. If it matches them then it is indeed a copy.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THE-FIFE-AND-F...d=p3286.c0.m14

This fake matches yours and despite what the seller says I doubt that it is an 'original' die.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/British-Cap-ba...d=p3286.c0.m14

Lugs are never a good sign on this badge.
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  #4  
Old 29-09-09, 04:16 PM
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Thanks to both of you for your responses. After reading older posts about all the fakes out there for so many badges (didn't know that when I bought this one), and one comment stated this particular badge was "Possibly the most reproduced badge of them all", had a bad feeling about mine.

Disappointed of course, but glad to know the truth. Time to take it out of the display with my other ORIGINAL buttons & badges...

David
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  #5  
Old 02-10-09, 10:29 AM
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Default Fife & Forfar Yeo.

Hello gentlemen,

I have just received this one, I trust the seller and believe it to be good, any observations ??

Dave.
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  #6  
Old 04-10-09, 09:43 PM
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Looks decent to me - one I would get myself (at least from the photo)

Dean
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  #7  
Old 05-10-09, 04:50 PM
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Default Fife & Forfar Yeo

Cheers Dean,

It's so much like the example shown by Alan that I'm really only trying to convince myself, lol.

David's version is lugged, would a correct version still be lugged or are they only fitted with sliders ? anyone ??

Dave.
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Last edited by davec2; 26-11-09 at 11:33 AM.
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  #8  
Old 05-10-09, 05:22 PM
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Lugs are inevitably a bad sign. I have yet to see a lugged one that I liked. That is not to say that the first ones were not lugged but they would be the exception.
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  #9  
Old 06-10-09, 05:05 PM
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One of these badges is from the 1940s and has been in the family ever since. The other one is modern.

They are from an identical die - absolutely the same one down to the last blade of grass. The only give aware is that so many fakes have been made that it is now worn and the reverse is very poorly defined (rear dies wear out first). Someone has an original die and is knocking out fakes. Even the slider is the right shape/style/length for a genuine one.

Alan
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  #10  
Old 11-10-09, 02:30 PM
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Default Fife and Forfar Yeo

Hi, in their WW11 history there is a photo of the 2nd bat. in Aug. 1944 wearing a backing to their badges. Anyone know what colour it was? or even better an example. Mike
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Old 11-10-09, 03:12 PM
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Mike,

it's the Ancient Hunting McIntosh tartan backing.

There were differences between the 2 Battalions during the war as far as their insignia are concerned. The only regimental distinctions worn by the 2FFY were the cap badge with the Ancient Hunting McIntosh tartan backing and the regimental arm flashes. Officers in the 2FFY did wear silver collar badges on their OSD however. Collar badges and brass shoulder titles were only worn on battledress by the 1FFY.

Concerning 1FFY, here is description given by Eric Annable who was in that regiment: Being in the 1st Fife & Forfar Yeomanry Tank Regiment our uniform was the same as everyone elses but with a few embellishments.

Khaki battledress comprising of khaki trousers and blouse, I had a belt for my waist as it was home to my weapon which was a revolver. The belt was actually optional in our squadron. The driver and co driver had a sten gun (small machine gun) which was quite dangerous because if you dropped or banged it accidentally it would fire a round of ammunition. There were a few near misses! The radio operator who was also the gun loader also had a Sten gun.
On our heads we wore a black beret, this originated from the first world war when the French gave the Royal Tank Regiment the honour of wearing their black beret.

Towards the end of the war whilst we were in Germany, we stayed at Geillenkirken. On arriving at the town, a unit of the Guards, (I don't know which regiment) saw the regimental badges on our shoulders and assumed that we were officers, they walked by and saluted us. We of course saluted back. It was a short while after when they got closer they realised that we were the same as them!

Our berets, collar badges and shoulder badges also had an adverse reaction from the native German people as they were very similar to a German SS Regiment who had treated their own people very badly. On entering the town, the German people gave us a very wide berth.


Hope it helps.
Cheers
Phil

Last edited by Alan O; 17-02-17 at 09:09 AM.
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  #12  
Old 11-10-09, 05:32 PM
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Hi, can't ask for more than that. Thankyou very much indeed. Pushing my luck you wouldn't know what the other-ranks wore as 20th Armoured cars. thanks again Mike.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-09, 05:43 PM
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Hi Mike,
I'll ask Rob who is a FFY specialist. My guess is that they should have been dressed almost the same manner as 19th (L&BH) Armoured Car Coy, RTC, which is WWI tunic & belt, collar dogs, black beret and cap badge. I'll ask him and will post here as soon as I know.

Moreover, if you're interested in the FFY during WWI and want to see some very pictures, maps etc, here is the direct link to read and see The Fife and Forfar Yeomanry and 14th (F. & F. Yeo.) Battn. R.H. 1914-1919 by D. D. Ogilvie

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18468...-h/18468-h.htm

All the best
Phil

Last edited by L&BH; 11-10-09 at 06:02 PM.
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  #14  
Old 26-10-20, 03:46 PM
Trubia26 Trubia26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Lugs are inevitably a bad sign. I have yet to see a lugged one that I liked. That is not to say that the first ones were not lugged but they would be the exception.
Sorry for open again this thread, but I am trying to learn about WWII British badges...I thought wartime badges had lugs, not sliders...Is this badge an exception? Or I am wrong about the fact of be lugged as a sign of authenticy?
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  #15  
Old 26-10-20, 04:09 PM
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Sorry but lugs are not a guarantee of authenticity. Some badges were only made with lugs, some with a vertical shank whilst others had times when the used either. In the case of the RA beret badge form the late '40s, they had both!
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