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  #1  
Old 03-04-16, 08:20 PM
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Default WWI Simplified Metal Shoulder Titles

The following is an extract from the Register of the Army Clothing Factory Pimlico - National Archives File WO359/15.

Not sure if it's been aired before.

Jon


10.2.1916
Titles Gilding Metal The following are approved as a temporary measure for the duration of the war:
Royal Berks to R Berks
R Inniskilling to R Innisk
Royal Irish to R Irish
E Lancashire to E Lancs
N Lancashire to N Lancs
Northampton to Northants
Royal Scots to R Scots
N Stafford to N Staffs
S Stafford to S Staffs
Royal Sussex to R Sussex
Duke of Wellingtons to DofWs
Yorkshire to KOYLI
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  #2  
Old 04-04-16, 01:03 AM
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Thank you Jon

There were others also. Attached from WO359 vol 16 the entry that rescinded the simplified titles in 1919. There are 26 Infantry titles in this entry that were simplified

You can see the pattern numbers with the designation. I only copied page 123 as I was interested in the Royal Irish Regiment and the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers only. The list runs on to p 124 and one can see 3 other entries from that part of the list in the scan of p 124.

Notice that the K.O.Y.L.I. has a 1919 SPN number.

John
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  #3  
Old 04-04-16, 10:52 AM
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John,

Thanks for the extra details. I noted that there were others but did not compile a complete list. Interesting to see the cancellation details.

Jon
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  #4  
Old 04-04-16, 12:54 PM
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Many thanks John and Jon

I've seen several wartime photos of the KOYLI title worn with the generic bugle and was wondering about the discrepancy with Westlake who says the KOYLI title was introduced in 1921.


Attachment 146118
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  #5  
Old 04-04-16, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mulcahy View Post
Thank you Jon

There were others also. Attached from WO359 vol 16 the entry that rescinded the simplified titles in 1919. There are 26 Infantry titles in this entry that were simplified

You can see the pattern numbers with the designation. I only copied page 123 as I was interested in the Royal Irish Regiment and the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers only. The list runs on to p 124 and one can see 3 other entries from that part of the list in the scan of p 124.

Notice that the K.O.Y.L.I. has a 1919 SPN number.

John
Thanks for that John. My only quibble is that the handwriting is so old fashioned and perfect for the age, it's almost impossible to read.

Is any one able to decipher the text at the top !!

Please.
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  #6  
Old 04-04-16, 01:44 PM
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A related extract from the same series

27/4/1916; Back plate issue to be discontinued where a shoulder title is in one piece. The saving of metal will be considerable.

Jon
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  #7  
Old 04-04-16, 07:17 PM
talos talos is offline
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Default WW1 SIMPLIFIED TITLES

Hi
When would these simplified titles have reached the troops in the field?.
Regards
Talos
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  #8  
Old 05-04-16, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman View Post
Thanks for that John. My only quibble is that the handwriting is so old fashioned and perfect for the age, it's almost impossible to read.

Is any one able to decipher the text at the top !!

Please.
Keith

Here is my transcription of the two, separate, entries on page 123.

" ACD/35693 28.4.19

Titles shoulder embd. no further provision.
Titles shoulder embroidered, which were sealed as a war measure only, when metal was scarce _ (word not visible) no longer be permitted. Dues in ? (word not visible) have been cancelled. The patterns are to be retained for a little while longer, and when stocks are used up metal titles will be reverted to.”

Titles Shoulder abbreviated made obsolete.
The following abbreviated shoulder titles, approved as a temporary measure for the period of the war are made obsolete, and future provision will be made of the ordinary pattern (Gilding Metal).”


The IWM have many of the war measure (may I say "economy" as it does look as if this embroidered shoulder title project WAS to save metal) embroidered title sealed pattern cards. Here is the one for The Royal Irish Regiment.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30073312

John
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  #9  
Old 05-04-16, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talos View Post
Hi
When would these simplified titles have reached the troops in the field?.
Regards
Talos
Talos

I cannot give you a direct answer on this.

By way of comparison let's look as another war-time initiative, the manufacture of many Infantry cap badges previously made in bi-metal in gilding metal only.

The order authorizing the project was approved on 29-Feb-1916.

A modification was made on 15-March-1916 to exclude some regimental designs from the list.

The company Bent & Parker received manufacturing contracts which included some of these temporary all gilding metal badges on 17-April-1916.

Usually the War Office ordered existing stocks of badges used up before their replacements were to be issued .

So orders for all GM badges were being placed within 2 months of the authorization of the project in the case of the company Bent & Parker.

How long it took for badges to make it into the field I guess depends on when existing stocks were run out and/or the new ones began to be issued to recruits and as replacements. I know of no data to pin down dates on this aspect.

A full description of the cap badge project can be found in Cap Badges of The First World War part 1 - the regular forces by Julian Bowsher & David Linaker, The Bulletin of the Military Historical Society, vol 66, no. 262, Nov. 2015, p 78-88.

John
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  #10  
Old 05-04-16, 01:31 PM
talos talos is offline
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Default WW1 SIMPLIFIED SHOULDER TITLES

Hi John

Thank you for your reply and the info on cap badges as well.

Regards

Talos
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  #11  
Old 06-07-16, 05:00 PM
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Default simplified badges

thankyou for that information, do you know if the royal irish rifles was r i. r. or was it the rigiment as well
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  #12  
Old 06-07-16, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w tomkins View Post
thankyou for that information, do you know if the royal irish rifles was r i. r. or was it the rigiment as well
I think you are asking if the Royal Irish Regiment (18th) wore the same title "R.I.R." as the Royal Irish Rifles if so the answer is no.

The abbreviated title for the Royal Irish Regiment (18th) was 'R. Irish". The Royal Irish Rifles title "R.I.R" was not included in this program as I assume it was already considered abbreviated enough.

Remember that 'R.I." was in use for certain ranks of the Royal Irish regiment.

Does this answer your query?

John
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  #13  
Old 07-07-16, 01:41 AM
w tomkins w tomkins is offline
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yes i think ir may do. the reason for the query was my grandfather name rafferty joined the herefordshire regiment in 1921, previous service down as r.i.r. which was on the attestation reference book.
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  #14  
Old 07-07-16, 10:30 AM
w tomkins w tomkins is offline
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Default R.I.R badge

my grandad, rafferty enlisted in the hfs t.a regiment in 1921, former service down as RIR. I was confused as the official nomenclature should have been r.ir.rif
but some badge sellers say it covers both irish regiments. Again thank you w tomkins hereford
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  #15  
Old 22-07-16, 09:51 PM
mtrpltpara mtrpltpara is offline
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Would anyone have the compleat list of titles?
Regards,
Bill
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