Help to ID rifleman, please.

[Jelly Terror]

Some time ago I acquired a couple of photographs of a rifleman. In one picture our man is serving with the London Irish, and in the other, he is a sergeant wearing 'Mutt & Jeff' ribbons, and serving with the City of London Rifles:



Yesterday whilst looking through the forum galleries, I noticed in Alan O's 'Foreign Service Helmets Badges' album, a photo of what I believe to be the very same man, albeit somewhat younger:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=61099

Forum pal Drew, and I have been having a stab at trying to ID this chap - we began fairly optimistically by searching via the NA and Ancestry, for anyone who served first with the 18th Londons, and then as a Sgt in the 6th Londons, but as yet nothing concrete has emerged. I wonder if forum members might be able to offer any tips on how we might better approach tackling such a search?

Any advice very much appreciated.

With thanks,

JT

[leigh kitchen]

Not likely as he's not an officer, but could be mentioned in the battalions war diaries along the lines of "Sgt ...... & a party of men transferred to / from.......?
As I say, not likely........

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

Not likely as he's not an officer, but could be mentioned in the battalions war diaries along the lines of "Sgt ...... & a party of men transferred to / from.......?
As I say, not likely........

Thanks for your reply, Leigh.

When I say we searched NA/Ancestry, it was the most basic of searches in that we looked through, and cross referenced, MICs with the search criteria of 18th & 6th London Rgts with Sgt rank... nothing more elaborate than that.

It'd be a real gift if Alan's pic turns out to have any info accompanying it.

Thanks again.

JT

[Drew]

Forgetting about the Sergeant aspect for a moment, there are only three records I can find for men who transferred from the 18th to the 6th Battalion. Process of elimination says that it must be one of these three chaps. That is, if he wasn't merely 'attached' to the 6th Battalion and hence no record of a transfer. Oh, and plus any number of other scenarios why this might not be the case... but it might be a start.

Sidney Blyth, 18th Bn. 594722, 6th Bn.
345029.

Nathaniel Bartlett, 18th Bn. 7175, 6th Bn. 44073, Leinster Rgt 28096 (perhaps not this man as the photo we have of our man in the 6th Bn. is quite a late one).

Percy O. Ferne, 18th Bn. 594730, 2nd KRRC 345031, 6th Bn. 345031.

I think Leigh's point is a very good one. Perhaps a look at the dairies for the names of Sergeants might bring up mention of one of these names. NCOs do pop up quite a bit.

Chris

P.S. As JT says, it is only a basic search, and names could have been missed.

Edit: I can't check the medal rolls to see which theatre these men served in. Apologies if wrong.

[Drew]

My explanation as to why these records are only for 'privates' ... I don't
know, I can only guess that perhaps he was promoted after hostilities ended and hence it doesnt appear on the medal cards. Pure speculation, I know. Just an idea though.

[High Wood]

The post Great War photograph shows a Brixton photographer.

[Hoot]

Oxfords of Brixton by the look of it.

[High Wood]

The National Archives have 93 MICs that show transfers between the 6th & 18th battalions of the London Regiment. Of these approximately 24 are from the 18th to the 6th including some via the KRRC. None of them are Sergeants at the time the MiCs were created.

I have not yet cross referenced them to see how many of these 24 survived the Great War.

[Drew]

Apologies, it appears I was a bit inaccurate there with my three only.

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Drew

Apologies, it appears I was a bit inaccurate there with my three only.

No problem, I have always found it easier to search medal index cards on the National Archives website as their search parameters are much better than those on Ancestry which often just has London Regiment on the medal index cards. The battalion number does not always appear in the heading.

[Drew]

I was using the National Archives so I've no excuse.
I will have a look into what you say about the code though.

Many thanks for the tip.

[High Wood]

I did these quickly on a spread sheet but have last the format in transferring it to the forum. All taken from the National Archives using 18th & 6th London as the search parameters. I have discounted those that transferred from the 6th to the 18th. Strangely, there are no names after the letter H.


NAME Initial 18th No 6th No Star Fate
Alford Ernest C 594587 345049 N DoW
Allen Alfred J 596697 345127 ? KiA
Attwell Albert H 591870 645122 N S
Blyth Sidney 594722 345029 N S
Bradshaw Henry J 596338 345148 N S
Brown James 596758 345123 N S
Browne James W 596592 345105 N S
Bull A M 5813 345166 Y S
Burgess Thomas John 596628 345115 N KiA
Canham William A 596370 N Hants 31248
Caplin George E 59626 345136 N S
Carmordy George F 592075 345094 N Disch07/02/1919
Chapman Albert E D 596222 345195 N S
Collett Charles C 591337 345089 N S Papers
Condon William P 596346 345179 Deserted 23/08/1920
Cotterill Arthur 593839 345088 N S
Cosler Sidney L 596763 345139 ? KRRC
Davis George W 596514 345179 ? KRRC
Ferne Percy O 594736 345031 N S
Gagen Ernest 594725 345039 N S
Gibson William G A 596557 345144 N S
Green George H 594738 345047 N S
Green John H D 596255 345095 N KRRC
Harman Albert J H 596553 345186 N S
Harvey Albert 596568 345143 N KiA

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by High Wood

I did these quickly on a spread sheet but have last the format in transferring it to the forum. All taken from the National Archives using 18th & 6th London as the search parameters. I have discounted those that transferred from the 6th to the 18th. Strangely, there are no names after the letter H.


NAME Initial 18th No 6th No Star Fate
Alford Ernest C 594587 345049 N DoW
Allen Alfred J 596697 345127 ? KiA
Attwell Albert H 591870 645122 N S
Blyth Sidney 594722 345029 N S
Bradshaw Henry J 596338 345148 N S
Brown James 596758 345125 N S
Browne James W 596592 345105 N S
Bull A M 5813 345166 Y S
Burgess Thomas John 596628 345115 N KiA
Canham William A 596370 N Hants 31248
Caplin George E 59626 345136 N S
Carmondy George F 592075 345094 N Disch07/02/1919
Chapman Albert E D 596222 345195 N S
Collett Charles C 591337 345089 N S Papers
Condon William P 596346 345179 Deserted 23/08/1920
Cotterill Arthur 593839 345088 N S
Cosler Sidney L 596763 345139 ? KRRC
Davis George W 596514 345179 ? KRRC
Ferne Percy O 594730 345031 N S
Gagen Ernest 594725 345039 N S
Gibson William G A 596557 345144 N S
Green George H 594738 345047 N S
Green John H D 596255 345095 N KRRC
Harman Albert J H 596553 345186 N S
Harvey Albert 596568 345143 N KiA

Simon,

That's brilliant, Thank you.

From a very quick glance over the info you have there, it is evident that we can immediately discount four of these men:

Alford Ernest C 594587 345049 N DoW
Allen Alfred J 596697 345127 ? KiA
Burgess Thomas John 596628 345115 N KiA
Harvey Albert 596568 345143 N KiA

The remainder being:

Attwell Albert H 591870 645122 N S
Blyth Sidney 594722 345029 N S
Bradshaw Henry J 596338 345148 N S
Brown James 596758 345125 N S
Browne James W 596592 345105 N S
Bull A M 5813 345166 Y S
Canham William A 596370 N Hants 31248
Caplin George E 59626 345136 N S
Carmondy George F 592075 345094 N Disch07/02/1919
Chapman Albert E D 596222 345195 N S
Collett Charles C 591337 345089 N S Papers
Condon William P 596346 345179 Deserted 23/08/1920
Cotterill Arthur 593839 345088 N S
Cosler Sidney L 596763 345139 ? KRRC
Davis George W 596514 345179 ? KRRC
Ferne Percy O 594730 345031 N S
Gagen Ernest 594725 345039 N S
Gibson William G A 596557 345144 N S
Green George H 594738 345047 N S
Green John H D 596255 345095 N KRRC
Harman Albert J H 596553 345186 N S

Many thanks thus far.

JT

[Alan O]

Unfortunately the picture in my FSH album was one emailed to me years ago and was so long ago I don't have a record who sent it to me.