Kangaroos badge

[boots and saddles]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/1st-Canadian-Armo...d=p3286.c0.m14 I like the reading that go along with this one. Does anyone know him?

[Bill A]

Hi Ray,
Note the description carefully avoids labelling the badge one way or the other, and he is letting the buyer make the decision. At $40 US it is an expensive filler.
The "flat" lugs on this example are new to me.
Bill Miller may have more to add.

[Semloh Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi Ray,
Note the description carefully avoids labelling the badge one way or the other, and he is letting the buyer make the decision. At $40 US it is an expensive filler.
The "flat" lugs on this example are new to me.
Bill Miller may have more to add.

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but why would a Canadian Regiment have an Australian symbol on it.

Retlaw

[boots and saddles]

Walter I think the purpose of the Regiment was to carry troops safely to the front, The purpose of a Kangaroo's pouch is to carry it's young safely. That is why they adopted the Kangaroo image. Not very well said but you get the drift. Ray

[Bwetdude]

Originally Posted by Semloh Retlaw

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but why would a Canadian Regiment have an Australian symbol on it.

Retlaw

It's Boot's explanation or the beavers where on back order....

Here's a website about the regiment : Canadian Kangaroos

[WJ Miller]

Ray has it correct.

The original Armoured Carriers were converted from M7 Priest SPG's at an AWD (Army Workshops Detachment) codenamed "Kangaroo". (though I haven't found any supporting documentation, the selection of that particular codename is too clever by half to be be mere coincidence)

The armoured "box" that enveloped the infantry as the rode into (and often through) the forward lines was likened to the protective pouch of a mother Kangaroo. Almost from the first action (August 7-8th 1944) the vehicle was referred to as a Kangaroo, the Squadron of drivers were called Kangaroos.

Loading and unloading infantry was referred to as empouched and depouched, respectively.

For better or worse, the name stuck. By the time the Squadron was formed into a full regiment 10 weeks later, the new CO, Lt.-Col. Churchill admitted no choice but to leave the nickname in place and it was unanimous among the originating officers to design a badge with a kangaroo design. The motto "Armatos Fundit" is latin for "pours forth armed men". Col. Churchill likened the Kangaroo tank to the Trojan Horse and borrowed the phrase from Virgil's account of Ulysses and the Trojan Horse in the "Aeneid".

later on, they also painted an orange kangaroo in profile on a black circle on the hulls of the APC's.

The 1CACR sister British regiment, the 49th Armoured Personnel Carrier Regiment did NOT adopt unique insignia. They retained the insignia of their former incarnation, the 49th Royal Tank Regiment. (plain RTR cap and shoulder titles). Though there are some photos showing a small kangaroo in profile painted on a few tanks and they used it on route signs as well.

Bill

[WJ Miller]

...about that badge on eBay? It's crap.

[boots and saddles]

Yes Bill, but I love the preamble. Worth 40 US just to read it. This guy is good, he should be a story teller.

[WJ Miller]

Yup. He is quite the story teller. He's obviously done some homework there to write such a description. Enough homework in fact to know to know that his "Kontroversial Kangaroo" is Krap.

Sadly, he has a bid on this badge too. I sold a repro on eBay last month, however, when you honestly describe them as such and leave out the deceiving little scraps of cloth they fetch far less...

[Bill A]

Bill, Did the 1 CACR wear a badge backing?

[WJ Miller]

No Bill they didn't, not for cap badges. Some men took to wearing black melton backings for sleeve patches (creating a more defined black border) but it was unapproved and such "fancy" dress was to be taken down. However, after disbandment in June of '45, some men chose to put back up the black backed insignia. Correctly badged, original uniforms can be found in both styles.

[WJ Miller]

...whoops,sorry meant to attach photos...

[Bill A]

Hi Bill, I was aware of the black backing added to titles / formation patches, but I didn't think we had ever discussed badge backings for the cap badge. An interesting enhancement to the badge at auction. Rough cut though...

[Bill A]

Someone purchased a $120 + US repro filler. No wonder there is a flood of repros on the market...

[WJ Miller]

I really don't get it Bill. Is this a case of a collector(s) just believing whatever they want to believe? More money than brains? Hopefully this isn't a family member or even worse a veteran trying to replace a lost or stolen badge and getting fleeced. (Note: I will GIVE a repro to any 1CACR veteran or family member who wants one! I have a small cache of them for just such a purpose.)

Despite the plethora of Kangaroo badge repros on the market, it is one of the easier badges to get good information on. Doing really simple Google searches will bring you to the threads on this forum regarding identifying this badge (pictures and all)!?!? That goes for sellers as well as buyers. I don't think there is any excuse not to know fact from fraud in this case. SO sellers with their fence-sitting position of "I'll let buyers be the judge, I can't tell if it is genuine or not", is B.S. or lazy or both.