TYNESIDE SCOTTISH CLOTH SHOULDER TITLES

[talos]

Hi All

Can anyone tell me please when the cloth arc shaped shoulder titles with TYNESIDE SCOTTISH on them, coloured as per the battalion diamond shaped battalion patches were introduced ?.

Regards

Talos

[Tigerlily]

They were introduced in 1916 Talos

Alli

[talos]

Hi Alli

Thank you for that. They were worn above the brigade's battalion diamond patches then ?. Were they worn in place of the special Tyneside Scottish metal shoulder titles or worn in conjunction with them ?.

Regards

Talos

[Tigerlily]

They were worn in conjunction but not at the same time i.e you wouldn't wear both a metal ST and cloth ST on the same uniform. I think the diamonds were worn on the shoulder straps.
Do you mean the coloured battalion diamonds? They were worn on the back of the SD jacket at the top of the shoulder seams(D. Wood 5th Fusiliers)

Alli

[MH331]

Alli,

Although weareing both types of titles was not the norm Mike Chappells WW1 British Battle Insignia book shows a LRB soldier wearing both cloth and metal titles simultaneously.

regards

Mark

[Tigerlily]

True, but as you say not the norm.

Alli

[talos]

Hi Alli and Mark

I was going to say the same thing, there are lots of examples were both metel and cloth titles were worn at the same time, particularly in London Regiment battalions and I have seen some worn by battalions in 32 Division including Northumberland Fusiliers.

Regards

Talos

[Postwarden]

Would be interested to know the source for the date of wearing the cloth title.

The embryo Imperial War Museum went to great lengths to establish what cloth badges were being worn in WWI and still hold the detailed records although they have never been published. The details given here were obtained from direct correspondence with the battalions between July and November 1917.

20th (Service) Battalion (1st Tyneside Scottish)102 Brigade 34th Division. 3/2/18 Disbanded
Red cloth diamond 2 ¾” x 1 ½” worn on back over shoulder seam directly below shoulder strap, both shoulders

21st (Service) Battalion (2nd Tyneside Scottish)
102 Brigade 34th Division. 3/2/18 Disbanded
Yellow cloth diamond as 20th NF

22nd (Service) Battalion (3rd Tyneside Scottish)
102nd Brigade 34th Division. 5/18 Reduced to cadre
Black cloth diamond as 20th NF

23rd (Service) Battalion (4th Tyneside Scottish)102 Brigade 34th Division
8/16 Brigade 39th Division
8/18 197 Brigade L o C
Blue cotton or silk diamond as 20th NF

The title could of course pre-date or postdate the IWM's enquiry.

Always happy to learn.

Jon

[Tigerlily]

Sorry just seen this, the info comes from Denis Woods book The Fifth Fusiliers And Its Badges.
Denis doesn't reference where the date has come from for the cloth titles. For the metal shoulder titles he references the Tyneside Scottish Committee.

I'll email Denis and ask him about the cloth ST's.

Alli

[Tigerlily]

Have a response from Denis as follows:
"TS Cloth STs. Sorry can't add anything to what is in my book except thoughts:

One would think Cloth STs would have been widely worn because: a. They don't have to be cleaned; b. By 1916 metal was becoming more scarce; and c. They don't hurt like metal ones do when you carry your slung rifle over them.

I have never found any authority for their issue so I expect they were private TS enterprise like all their other badges."

[talos]

Hi

Thank you very much for that very interesting information.

Regards

Talos