Shipwright?

[BWEF]

Can anyone help with this photograph?

If I have it right this man is a Petty Officer, and he is some sort of Shipwright?

The badge with a star over the crossed items is not listed in my reference work, but if he had a crown instead of a star he would be a Chief Shipwright, so I would imagine he is something lower?

Also, can anyone date this photo? I would imagine that the medal ribbons would help.

[stonehouse boy]

Hi
A star above a crossed axe and hammer is a Chief Blacksmith, Chief Plummer, Chief Painter, Chief Cooper.
Your mans medals are Distinguished Service Medal and Long Service and Good Conduct Medal.
I can't see the monarchs head in the picture of the medals and so can't date it.
John

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by stonehouse boy

Hi
A star above a crossed axe and hammer is a Chief Blacksmith, Chief Plummer, Chief Painter, Chief Cooper.
Your mans medals are Distinguished Service Medal and Long Service and Good Conduct Medal.
I can't see the monarchs head in the picture of the medals and so can't date it.
John

Thanks for that John.

I don't know if it will be of use but I have scanned the medals. I can't see the monarchs head either, but post the scan in case anyone elses eyes are sharper than mine.

[stonehouse boy]

Hi,
I asked the opinion of a friend about your picture and here's his reply
Totally agree interesting that PO's capbadge but CPO collar badges?
my book says
Skilled shipwright 1899-1919
Blacksmith Painter plumber 1st class, Chief Carpenters mate, carpenters mate 1890-1924
Armament mechanic RNAS 1916-18
Cooper,Joiner, Shipwright 1st class 1919-1924
Chief Shipwright 1919-32
Chief Blacksmith, Chief Plumber, Chief painter 1919-1948
Chief Cooper, Chief Joiner 1924-48
all Artisans 1st 2nd 3rd class 1924-1968.
So take your pick!
Basically a tiff around 1919!

The Distinguished Service Medal was instituted on the 14 October 1914, and
your man in the picture is only wearing a pair of medals meaning his DSM was an early award in the first world war.
The issuing of his other medals didn't start until the early 1920's and so you can date your picture to around 1917-23.
John

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by stonehouse boy

Hi,
I asked the opinion of a friend about your picture and here's his reply
Totally agree interesting that PO's capbadge but CPO collar badges?
my book says
Skilled shipwright 1899-1919
Blacksmith Painter plumber 1st class, Chief Carpenters mate, carpenters mate 1890-1924
Armament mechanic RNAS 1916-18
Cooper,Joiner, Shipwright 1st class 1919-1924
Chief Shipwright 1919-32
Chief Blacksmith, Chief Plumber, Chief painter 1919-1948
Chief Cooper, Chief Joiner 1924-48
all Artisans 1st 2nd 3rd class 1924-1968.
So take your pick!
Basically a tiff around 1919!

The Distinguished Service Medal was instituted on the 14 October 1914, and
your man in the picture is only wearing a pair of medals meaning his DSM was an early award in the first world war.
The issuing of his other medals didn't start until the early 1920's and so you can date your picture to around 1917-23.
John

Thanks for going to the trouble of doing that John.

Shame the pic isn't named, and he will be forever unknown.

[stonehouse boy]

Hi
Your welcome.
I have the roll for the DSM and there are some early awards for shipwrights
listed but its knowing which one.
You could put his picture up on the British Medals Forum they would like to see it, they have a section 1914-39
Some of the collectors of naval awards on the forum have a big interest in DSM's and it always amaze's me what they can find out.
His picture might have made a newspaper after his award and might carry a name.
John

[RCN]

He is a Chief Shipwright (or perhaps another Chief Artisan as listed in the table above), of the Great War period.

CPO's did not received the cap badge with the anchor encircled by laurel leaves until 1920.

The Crown above the crossed axe & hammer did not appear until 1932.

I have many of these RPPC unidentified, too bad they did not ID them at the time!

Bryan

[Lee R.]

I would love to find a reference book at contained all these Naval trade badges from all the Commonwealth Countries and for all time periods. Quite an order I know, but I have many unidentified examples in my collection and I suspect most are post WWII. The WWII era has been covered pretty well, but it's hit or miss with other time periods. One big problem is that many designs have come and gone and some of them just didn't last all that long.
Another problem is making sense out of the combination of stars and crowns incorporated within these badges. For a Yank, it gets pretty confusing at times just to properly identify some of these.
At least I discovered this forum and you fellows have been a big help in identifing a lot of insignia for me! Thanks!

[BWEF]

Thanks to all for the additional posts in this thread.

[RCN]

Originally Posted by Lee R.

I would love to find a reference book at contained all these Naval trade badges from all the Commonwealth Countries and for all time periods. Quite an order I know, but I have many unidentified examples in my collection and I suspect most are post WWII. The WWII era has been covered pretty well, but it's hit or miss with other time periods. One big problem is that many designs have come and gone and some of them just didn't last all that long.
Another problem is making sense out of the combination of stars and crowns incorporated within these badges. For a Yank, it gets pretty confusing at times just to properly identify some of these.
At least I discovered this forum and you fellows have been a big help in identifing a lot of insignia for me! Thanks!

Just post your badges Lee & I will try to ID them for you, been collecting them for more yrs that I can recall. or PM me with yr email address & you could send pics to me if that is more convenient for you,

Bryan

[Bill A]

I hope we can get images of these posted. Lee R, like you, many of us would like to learn more about naval badges. Thanks for sharing your expertise Bryan.

[seadog]

Hi All,
Have found this very interesting and decided to add my small bit of information. I have collected (I think most of) the South African Navy trade badges and the collection can be viewed at:
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/...ome-and-garden.
The "trade badges" are also known as mustering badges or Non substantive badges because the level is not directly connected to the rank, although the collar badge does indicate a CPO rank. In the SA Navy the levels were
Just the badge: training (normally National Serviceman)
Star above: Part 1 (normally AB)
Star above and Below Part 2 (normally Leading Seaman)
Lion above and Star below Part 3 ( normally PO)
Lion above and two stars below Instr (normally CPO / WO)
Also issued the 3 colors Yellow on black (winter dress) Blue on white (work dress) and red on black (sea going tunic (red sea dress) discontinued late 1970's). I have tried to build up the collection of part 3 badges in yellow on black but have had to add some others where badges are not available. Hope this is of some interest and help.

[seadog]

Hi All,
Have found this very interesting and decided to add my small bit of information. I have collected (I think most of) the South African Navy trade badges and the collection can be viewed at:
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/...ome-and-garden.
The "trade badges" are also known as mustering badges or Non substantive badges because the level is not directly connected to the rank, although the collar badge does indicate a CPO rank. In the SA Navy the levels were
Just the badge: training (normally National Serviceman)
Star above: Part 1 (normally AB)
Star above and Below Part 2 (normally Leading Seaman)
Lion above and Star below Part 3 ( normally PO)
Lion above and two stars below Instr (normally CPO / WO)
Also issued the 3 colors Yellow on black (winter dress) Blue on white (work dress) and red on black (sea going tunic (red sea dress) discontinued late 1970's). I have tried to build up the collection of part 3 badges in yellow on black but have had to add some others where badges are not available. Hope this is of some interest and help.