Leeds Pals GM and Bronze

[mooke07]

Hi all,

A new addition to my Pals collection. A Leeds Pals in bronze, comments appreciated but think it is ok as compared with my GM one that has been well vetted.

Regards Dean.

[AndyC_65]

The bronze badge is a cracker - congrats.

Andy C

[Sonofacqms]

Dean, I'm a bit puzzled as it is in bronze, is it an OSD collar badge?

If its a cap badge should it not have blades?

Rob

[mooke07]

Thanks Andy and Rob,

This was from a previous thread from OC14:

"Definitely not an OSD collar, Officers of the Leeds Pals (15th Battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment) wore the standard pattern Officers West Yorks Regt collar badges and buttons (white horse of Hannover in facing pairs in bronze), ORs didn't wear collar badges."

They were never on sliders but 25 known in silver, in bronze, blackened GM and GM - OR's were GM. I presume that the bronze ones are equivalent to an OSD cap badge. Just a thought and plenty of Leeds Pals experts will know. Will look in my Leeds Pals book for a bronze picture but others who helped in preparation of that book will know.

Cheers Dean

[mooke07]

Plenty of platoon and company photos of Leeds Pals Officers, NCO's and other ranks in Laurie Milner's "Leeds Pals" book. Officers appear to have a bronzed or blackened badge with West Yorkshire OSD collars.

NCO's at Sergeant and below wear a brighter GM Leeds Pals badge.

I think it reasonable to consider the bronze Leeds Pals I have posted as an Officers badge.

There are several silver Leeds Pals badges worn on senior Officers early in the War.

Regards Dean

[Fatherofthree]

Good evening.

And Dean, apologies for having a pop at your ORs badge which you state has been well vetted.

I realise I’m probably splitting hairs with this and perhaps it’s only me who sees these two badges differently.

I’m sure if there was a problem, somebody with a greater knowledge than I would have piped up by now.

Now, this is where I may be completely wrong, but comparing the two, there are several obvious differences.

1. The Owl on the perch: from what I have learned from the Forum that it should be upright and erect, as per the Officers’ example, not leaning forward.

2. The perch it is standing on: the voiding on the ORs example is not as clean and defined as the other.

3. The large owls: on the OR example both appear to have larger eyes than the Officers’, especially the one on the left as viewed.

In addition, the one on the left appears to be looking slightly to the left, and not straight at the viewer, as opposed to the Officers’ and the one on the right seems to be looking towards the floor rather than straight ahead.

ORs, the large Owls’ crowns are not as well defined.

ORs, the feathering on the horizontal leg appears to be bulkier.

4. The dead sheep’s head: the ORs appears to be full face on whilst the other appears to be in profile, although both horns are showing.

5. The overall definition of the two large owls seems to be lacking in detail in comparison to other recent examples shown on here.

As I said maybe it’s just me.

Regards

Brian

Hi,

Sorry for being late on this one but I have only just come across the post.

Out of the 2 badges which are different strikes I like the Brass example the best (leaning owl and all) which appears to have had a bit of polish applied, hence the perceived lack of detail on the front (the best way to tell a good one from a bad one is from the back).

Bronzed badges were the norm for 15th Bn officers (once the former Officer cadets got rid of their Leeds University OTC badges) and whilst this one is a different strike to the other badge I have no reason from the photos not to believe that its genuine, I have an example I thought was an OR's badge as the front was polished down to base brass metal but when I looked at the rear it still retained its bronze wash/finish.

As for white (Silver) officers badges I have only ever seen 1 photo of it being worn and that was by the 1st Commanding officer, there are plenty of photos showing the darker (Bronzed) badge being worn by officers as early as Colsterdale. I have seen a silver badge in a presentation box many moons ago but unfortunately don't own an example.

I have never seen an original blackened badge (I have a good copy example) I have seen plenty in photos being worn on the Woresely helmet whilst in Egypt and would expect that these badges were subsequently polished up (back to brass) when the Battalion moved to France.

Kind Regards,

Marcus

P.S. There is no such thing as a slidered 15th Bn OR's badge nor a bronzed officers bladed version

[mooke07]

Thanks Marcus and Brian for input.

All good observations, thoughts and knowledge.

Am happy with both, cheers Dean