out of Africa - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

DavidS · #1 05-02-09, 12:17 AM

CPMil has now posted 20-25 WWI New Zealand badges and some African stuff on eBay. One item is this one, you can pull seller's other items for the remainder. No idea what constitutes good vs bad/rare vs common NZ things, so I'd be interested in opinions.

Bill A · #2 05-02-09, 12:58 AM

Some very rare badges in the listings. Like you Dave, I have little knowledge about the ins and outs of NZ badges, but some of these are very rare.
Note the bids on the Shanghai Armoured Car badges.
Does anyone know the original collector?
And a bit of a pet peeve. Why do many dealers keep the name of the original collector anonymous? If I knew it was so an so's collection I would be reassured of the provenance. Why not make it public?

DavidS · #3 05-02-09, 02:31 AM

WTH, I wrote and asked him.

DavidS · #4 05-02-09, 08:04 PM

According to CPMil, they did not post the collector's name in their listings out of consideration for the family, as he passed away very recently. However, they did say they would (and did for me) provide the name if asked.

saumua · #5 08-02-09, 09:50 AM

All the NZ stuff is good. the one that you have illustrated is not a rare badge and sell for NZ$25 - $30.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidS

CPMil has now posted 20-25 WWI New Zealand badges and some African stuff on eBay. One item is this one, you can pull seller's other items for the remainder. No idea what constitutes good vs bad/rare vs common NZ things, so I'd be interested in opinions.

pukman · #6 08-02-09, 06:05 PM

The 17th Mounted Reinforcements badge is the standout.It does not come up for sale very often,In fact the only other genuine one i seen for sale in the last 6 years i bought(private deal).It is relugged (originally hex lugs) and there are copies out there.Copies are cast badges ,and of lower quality.Other badges are nice also.

Cheers pukman

Kiwisapper · #7 11-02-09, 10:04 AM

Chaps,

I'd have to disagree that all of this stuff is good. the 1st, 2nd and 12th Mounted Rifles all look brand new with the 12th MR being a particularly nasty looking fake.

Take a look at the awful fake JR Gaunt tablet on his NZ Artillery badge.....

I have bought a few NZ items off eBay and have been pretty pissed off by the overall quality and the ratio of fake to original. I suppose caveat emptor applies as all the threads relating to eBay state.

Sorry to be the one wearing De Bono's Black hat but in my opinion these are really not that good at all.

Cheers

Rob

saumua · #8 11-02-09, 10:32 AM

Well I am fairly amazed by this opinion........ In 20 years of collecting I have rarely seen fake NZ badges besides obviously cast ones which have turned up on eBay in the past couple of years - most NZ collectors and deallers would agree with this including both the Oldham brothers.

NZDF sold a lot of WW1 surplus stuff in the 1960s brand new by the bag full which is why you do get mint badges out there.

Artillery badge looks OK to me (mint) although these are only worth US$12.50 over here

1st mounted cap is relugged..... not new

1st mounted collaers are polished and have lugs crushed ...... not new.

2nd mounted in mint and fine

12th mounted cap is mint collars are used.

The common stuff is overpriced but the rare stuff is worth chasing.....

A word of advice..... Geoff Oldhams retail price is usually cheaper than eBay by miles of try trademe.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwisapper

Chaps,

I'd have to disagree that all of this stuff is good. the 1st, 2nd and 12th Mounted Rifles all look brand new with the 12th MR being a particularly nasty looking fake.

Take a look at the awful fake JR Gaunt tablet on his NZ Artillery badge.....

I have bought a few NZ items off eBay and have been pretty pissed off by the overall quality and the ratio of fake to original. I suppose caveat emptor applies as all the threads relating to eBay state.

Sorry to be the one wearing De Bono's Black hat but in my opinion these are really not that good at all.

Cheers

Rob

pukman · #9 11-02-09, 06:15 PM

Hello guys,i think Shaun has summed up the situation.Although there is one copy/fake(good quality) circulating on e-bay,that being the NZ Maori poineers /Oldham's reference 4/195 with a solid necklace and impressed back.Gaunt badges have the voided necklaces ,their O.K.While there is a version made by Firmin ,London,with solid necklace.They are rare.

Rule of thumb,if its a cast(not to be confused with sandcast) NZ badge,its a fake/copy.

cheers pukman

saumua · #10 11-02-09, 11:32 PM

Really good prices for the rarer badges......... must sell some of my stuff!

Kiwisapper · #11 12-02-09, 04:44 AM

Sorry Saumua but I still disagree.

These badges are nearly 100 years old on the whole and they have not been sitting in air tight containers for that time. To get so many "brand new" badges is just about impossible.

I have also been collecting for about 20 years and I don't believe that half of these badges are real due to the sickly yellow metal, the badly stamped edges and the rubbish copper wire lugs; not to mention the fake Gaunt tablets, but you are entitled to your own opinion.

Best of luck.

Rob

saumua · #12 12-02-09, 04:54 AM

Mate they are just poor photos. Even today Geoff and Dave Oldham have boxes of new badges with the manufacturers gilding still on purchased from defence clearance auctions in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. The brass dont age until the gilt is polished off. I also fail to understand why anyone would fake a common badge like these. I would understand if it were an LRP badge.... but these? But as you say each to their own opinion. If you are in Auckland drop in and see Geoff http://www.milimem.com

Kiwisapper · #13 12-02-09, 06:19 AM

I've bought a couple of badges from him in the past and was happy enough.

Its the crap lugs that make me jumpy on these. The 16th Waikato Regt and the 14th Otago Regt badges in my collection have them too and I would not be happy putting them with the rest of my 1st NZEF collection when I eventually mount them.

Have you got any plans to put an album on here?

saumua · #14 12-02-09, 07:19 AM

No mate too many badges.

I have a lot of stuff on Teds Aussie site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwisapper

I've bought a couple of badges from him in the past and was happy enough.

Its the crap lugs that make me jumpy on these. The 16th Waikato Regt and the 14th Otago Regt badges in my collection have them too and I would not be happy putting them with the rest of my 1st NZEF collection when I eventually mount them.

Have you got any plans to put an album on here?

slick_mick · #15 12-02-09, 08:41 AM

You should consider posting an album here - 1300 odd users here vs 20 on there.

Mick