Canadian WW2?

[James G]

Can anyone tell me if the following badges are WW2 vintage. I am not even entirely sure the last 2 are Canadian. they came in a job lot of Canadian badges so i assume they are.

[Bill A]

Nice catch. The first badge is a post 1949 -1953 badge for the Royal Newfoundland Regiment. The second is a pre-1949 badge for the Royal Newfoundland Regiment. The third badge may be the Irish Fusiliers of Canada, and the last two are the Irish Regiment of Canada. The Irish Fusiliers, could you post an image of the reverse?

[Wyn vdSchee]

The Irish Fusiliers of Canada badge should have a maple leaf above the harp, but it's a little difficult to tell from your photo. If there is a maple leaf present, it is Canadian. The last two are Irish Regiment of Canada. The last three are all Second World War Vintage, or at least the designs are, if not the actual date of manufacture.
Wyn

[boots and saddles]

Bill have you ever seen an Irish Fusiliers of Canada with a slider? I haven't but that dosen't say they didn't, they were disbanded in 1965 I believe they still have a band although civilian. Ray

[Bill A]

No I haven't seen a Canadian Irish Fusiliers badge with a slider. Not to say they didn't exist, but not likely. Phil Herring should have more to add on that question.

[DavidS]

The Irish Fusiliers Vancouver Regiment is the 1930s "wartime" type, and I have seen the odd one with a slider, or with a slider replacing lugs. The post-war pattern has British-style flames coming from the bomb, rather than these small, feathery type flames shown here. Another big diff. is the shape of the crown's fleurs de lis -- triangular like this one's for the wartime pattern, squared on the post-war pattern.

A pet peeve of mine in that a lot of post-war Irish Fusiliers types are flogged as "original WWII".

Although your pic. of the war-time Newfoundland Regiment badge (2nd left) says 'collar', it could be a cap badge as well, depending on measurements. Cap badge is about 2" high (I am not at home, so am remeberguessing that).

As for the Irish Regiment badge, probably says "Birks" on the back, n'est ce pas?

[James G]

Thanks everyone for the prompt replies.

I have posted pictures of the reverse of these badges below. The Irish Fusiliers of Canada badge does have a maple leaf above the harp. The back of the badge where the crown is attached looks weak but is`actually very solid
The Newfoundland collar is just 1 1/2 inches high or 38mm. Just on each antler it reads Sculley Ltd and Montreal. The two you have identified Irish Regiment of Canada Badges are very different in quality. The one with the harp in white metal is nicely stamped heavy and has good patination. The one with just the white metal scroll is indistinctly stamped at the back and the patination is newer. Is one an officers badge and the other an ORs badg?

[DavidS]

Re the Irish Regiment variations, more likely one is an early and/or Birks made badge and the other is a 'good enough' late war badge. Looks to me like it's just lost the w.m. overlay for the harp as there looks to be some grey residue from a slap-dab, wartime rush, insufficient solder job.

Common in a lot of Canadian badges -- early badges or pre-war KC badges are heavier metal, better struck and better lugged, while late war production badges have lighter lugs, thinner metals and the workmanship you'd expect from needing another 500 by tomorrow noon. There's a big difference between a Rodin Bros. marked West Novas badge, say, and one made in 1944, or between a Scully-made 1930s Canadian Scottish vs. the same badge from the 1950s.

[Bill A]

David, Good point about the Irish Fusiliers badge. There were many Canadian badges made by British makers between the wars. Most of the British made Canadian badges seem to have had sliders.

[boots and saddles]

Originally Posted by DavidS

The Irish Fusiliers Vancouver Regiment is the 1930s "wartime" type, and I have seen the odd one with a slider, or with a slider replacing lugs. The post-war pattern has British-style flames coming from the bomb, rather than these small, feathery type flames shown here. Another big diff. is the shape of the crown's fleurs de lis -- triangular like this one's for the wartime pattern, squared on the post-war pattern.

A pet peeve of mine in that a lot of post-war Irish Fusiliers types are flogged as "original WWII".

Although your pic. of the war-time Newfoundland Regiment badge (2nd left) says 'collar', it could be a cap badge as well, depending on measurements. Cap badge is about 2" high (I am not at home, so am remeberguessing that).

As for the Irish Regiment badge, probably says "Birks" on the back, n'est ce pas?

David , The Irish Fusiliers of canada got the coronet in 1937, 36 or 7 not sure which, Before that they just had the flaming bomb,also at that time they got permission to wear the Royal Irish Fusiiers buttons (with the # 8) Which was the pennant or flag of the French 8th regt which they captured back when. The badge which James has there has a large maple leaf above the harp, does the RIR have that ? This information comes to me via Mr. Chris Brooker if I remember right.

[Voltigeur]

Hi Ray, I think you mean the Royal Irish Fusiliers ?

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/bri...iers_badge.jpg

As added information, the badge of the No.1158 Irish Fusiliers (VR) Cadet Corps,ca.1925.
http://www.armycadethistory.com/webs...1158%20Hat.jpg

[Phillip Herring]

Here is the General Order for The Irish Fusiliers of Canada (The Vancouver Regiment)

G.O. 170/1937
BADGES – IRISH FUSILIERS (VANCOUVER REGIMENT) G.O. 170/1937

1. The following badges are authorized for the Irish Fusiliers (Vancouver Regiment) effective 1st December 1937.
2. Officers: Badges are described hereunder. The Dress Regulations for the Canadian Militia are amended by inserting the following detail of badges for the IRISH FUSILIERS (VANCOUVER REGIMENT).
Cap Badge

The Grenade in brass, the maple leaf and harp in white metal. A grenade; upon the ball of the grenade a harp surmounted by a maple leaf.

Extreme height 1 ¼ inches
Extreme width of flame 7/8 inch
Extreme width of ball of grenade ¾ inch

Collar Badge

Full dress, undress and service dress only.
The beaver in brass, remainder of the badge in white metal. A beaver upon a bar inscribed “CANADA” resting upon a scroll in three loopsinscribed on the first “VANCOUVER” on the second “XXIX” and on the third “BATTALION.”

Extreme height 15/16 inch
Extreme width 1 9/16 inchesa

Mess dress only. As for cap badge.

Shoulder Badge

The letters “V R” in white metal, remainder of badge in brass. The letters “I F” with a grenade between. Upon the ball of the grenade, the letters “V R.”

Height of letters “I F” ½ inch
Height of grenade 1 inch
Extreme width of badge 1 1/16 inches

Badge for full dress headdress

The grenade in brass, the maple leaf and harp in white metal. A grenade; upon the ball of the grenade a harp surmounted by a maple leaf.

Extreme height 3 7/8 inches
Extreme width of flame 1 7/16 inches
Extreme width of ball of grenade 1 5/8 inches

Buttons
In brass – General service pattern.

3. Other Ranks: Badges and buttons of the same design for Officers (except mess dress) and of
the same metals.

H.Q. 7-13-9
M.N.D.

The coronets were not authorized, but were locally manufactured. This is why the coronet attachment always looks "home made" - strips of metal or pieces of wire soldered to the coronet and the grenade
My source is a long time badge collector who was also a member of The Regiment.

Phil

[DavidS]

Originally Posted by boots and saddles

David , The Irish Fusiliers of canada got the coronet in 1937, 36 or 7 not sure which, Before that they just had the flaming bomb,also at that time they got permission to wear the Royal Irish Fusiiers buttons (with the # 8) Which was the pennant or flag of the French 8th regt which they captured back when. The badge which James has there has a large maple leaf above the harp, does the RIR have that ? This information comes to me via Mr. Chris Brooker if I remember right.

I have heard that the bomb and crown were worn as officers', the bomb only as O.R.'s badges. My points about the design are the the post-war Canadian badge is often sold as the pre-war/wartime badge. These both have the leaf over the harp, however, they are totally different dies. You can see the differences by comparing the badge posted here with this image.

Besides the bomb flames, and the 2nd and 4th crown point shapes (square, not triangular), the harp/angel/leaf are much more detailed. Even 'minty' pre-war IFofC badges have poorly detailed w.m. overlays for the harp.

[Phillip Herring]

The grenade badge was never worn without the coronet, regardless of rank. If only the officers wore the coronet, please consider the number of badges that are encountered with the coronet, compared to the number of badges encountered without. The badges I am referring to are the 1937 pattern, not the 1950s pattern with the "Imperial" flames and the coronet.
Phil

[LLWill]

A while ago a came across a very interesting book. It seems to be copies of the official authorization of most of the regimental badges.I'll try to post as a PDF, if that doesn't work I'' do a jpg---- Well that didn't work!!! (PDF is to big)

Larry