What a/a badges are worth buying ??

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by William

Don't wanna spoil the fun of Hagwalther's book, but think it worth mentioning that, among many others, Bosley's auctioned these AA badges during the past few years...

RSF £242
13th London Regt £201
KC RASC £605

Prices shown were all very significantly increased by the addition of seller's premium, buyer's premium, credit/debit card charges, regimental subs, mess fees etc.

There are plenty more examples of AA badges sold at £600 and more.

No worries William.

I'm not recording prices in the book but I do allocate a 'scarcity' code to each badge that I have evidence of that was:

a) Officially authorised for issue
b) Actually manufactured

Both Royal Scots Fusiliers get a 'C' grade (highest) and the 41st Signal Regiment (Princess Louise’s Kensington) (TA) a 'B'.

'A' grade badges are like the very common 5 quid items on eBay. All pretty arbitary mind.

Mind you my Royal Scots Fusiliers [Tudor] only cost me a tenner on eBay so who knows.

Regards

Chris

[bess55]

Hi Gents,
There are of course several very scarce anodised alluminium badges. Generally because they are of a very early issue, limited in issue for a short period, a small or unique unit and of course they were not popular, so not saved by soldiers as a matter of course (like they may have done with brass or other metal badges). Being very light they are easily discarded by mistake and of course scuff/scratch/damage easily and discarded on purpose as a result. They were not popular by Battalions and Regiments who often directed posted in recruits to exchange them in favour of brass etc - we all know the stories (one of the more well known being that of the Loyal Regiment in tudor drown).

For my money, dont pass by a West Yorkshire Regt in A/A if you see one. An example went for several hundreds of pounds in auction a year or two ago.

There are of course rarer and more expensive Regts, but you just may see one of these lurking in a tin of rubbish one day!

Regards all

Bess

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by bess55

For my money, dont pass by a West Yorkshire Regt in A/A if you see one. An example went for several hundreds of pounds in auction a year or two ago.

Bess

Hi Bess,

I rechecked my notes in response to a members email and while I have no evidence of the West Yorkshire being officially authorised for issue it does get into my 'possibles' appendix (with 21 others) on the grounds of construction by the particular maker.

Regards

Chris

[49lassiepen]

mint pair you can have for £5.00, have large number of spare from my Wessex collection, obtained when 2nd wessex disbanded regards David In the old days[1973] purchased a carrier bag full of a/a badge -Kent auctions used to hold sales by Bedford Some are shown in my general album collection including silver R .Sussex - error

[Staffsyeoman]

Been reading this thread with interest, and if you'll excuse me getting on my high horse for a moment (I'll probably fall off as an ex-infantryman)

What staybrite badges are worth getting? The ones you need for your collection!

Give some of us a chance rather than hoarding the scarce ones and making even more money for the providers at the over-priced end of the market due to even greater 'scarcity' (no names, no packdrill).

Oops, I just fell off

[William]

Hi, Staffs Yeoman,

With the possible exception of a handful of dodgy 'dealers', I think there are very few 'hoarders' out there.

The issues are rather that there are so few genuinely old AA badges and the fact that the few folks who comprise the AA collection market-place are marginally more than the items for sale within it can satisfy. In other words, too many collecors, not enough badges.

Prices for rare AA badges have been high for a very long time - at least fifteen years, though some of us haven't always known what we were getting for our money.

Until recently it has been very difficult to spot a fake AA badge. I personally have spent many hundreds of pounds buying copies, fakes and rubbish from unscrupulous people, who are accepted as part of our 'community', even though they peddle trash at high prices. They are accepted because they also sell good badges, which collectors actually want, though they will always be ready to bilk a beginner.

Keep searching, keep looking, keep collecting. The badges you are looking for are out there somewhere.

[Staffsyeoman]

Thanks William; fair point. I was just sounding a note of caution that someone who, for concocted example, collects 'Bedfordshire Yeomanry before 1914' now starts buying these identified rare A/A as a hedge against inflation, investment, whatever.

Perfectly natural, I can't dictate to anyone what they buy, but having a pecking order would surely affect supply, increase demand - and prices. Then the fakers.

Howling at the moon, I know...

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Staffsyeoman

Thanks William; fair point. I was just sounding a note of caution that someone who, for concocted example, collects 'Bedfordshire Yeomanry before 1914' now starts buying these identified rare A/A as a hedge against inflation, investment, whatever.

Perfectly natural, I can't dictate to anyone what they buy, but having a pecking order would surely affect supply, increase demand - and prices. Then the fakers.

Howling at the moon, I know...

Hi Staffsyeoman,

It is actually very hard to fake an A/A badge due to the process used to make them. The issue was (is) people going to the badge makers and having a batch of 'desirable' badges made by them which were then sold on to the unsuspecting collector.

However, these 1980's badges can easily be identified if one knows what to look for and if one knows what was actually officially authorised for issue in the first place.

There are now only a few A/A manufacturers left that traditionally made military badges via official contract and I doubt if any of these now makes A/A badges for the MoD due to their replacement by 'new metal' items. If I remember these companies are:

Firmin&Sons PLC
Shaw Munster
Toye Kenning & Spencer which also incorporate the London Badge and Button Co Ltd

Each has their own manufacturing attributes which is also era dependent. Therefore, if you if you see an older unit badge with a modern slider on more commonly associated by LB&B you can smell a rat straight away.

By listing A/A badges into a scarcity level of ranking all I have done is to identify which badges are common and which are scarce. I have not used prices as common in other publications as these constantly change in time. Now if some dodgy dealer out there (and believe me with all the info I have from collectors I would suggest that there are more bad dealers (even criminal) than good ones and don't get me going on auction houses which seem to be a law unto themselves) decides to get some 'C' type badges made then these badges will invariably come with modern attributes such as the slider etc and these modern attributes will be the indicator of an unofficial commission.

To take things further it is up to the collector to know what is and what is not a dud item. If you take a look at the guys in the German combat badge area you will see that they can ID fakes down to individual variant within maker within badge. These collectors are really on top of the fakers and I would say are 30 years ahead of the UK badge collector. To be quite honest, with all the good info out there, if a German badge collector buys a fake then they really only have themselves to blame. A British badge collector would do well to study some of the specialist German badge books and see the level of research and detail that these authors study and transfer the same to their collecting field.

Basically it simple - if you don't want fakes then don't buy them and if you don't know the difference between a fake and a good badge then don't buy badges or a specific badge until you do.

As I have said before on many occasions - if a member here wants me to give advice on any potential A/A badge then I will do so. A few members make extensive use of this service and I am always happy to carry it out. After approx. five years now of extensively studying these badges I believe it really has all fallen into place.

Regards

Chris

[mjw]

Further to the earlier posting relating to A/A badges.

Can the Forum member identify the examples shown in the enclosed picture as belonging to the Norfolk Regiment?

Excluding the backing plate, the actual badge itself measures 25mm high by 22mm wide.

Kind regards, Malcolm.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by mjw

Further to the earlier posting relating to A/A badges.

Can the Forum member identify the examples shown in the enclosed picture as belonging to the Norfolk Regiment?

Excluding the backing plate, the actual badge itself measures 25mm high by 22mm wide.

Kind regards, Malcolm.

Hi Malcolm,

I don't know anything about collars but if you show images of the reverse I will tell you if I think the badges were made by the correct manufacturing method.

Regards

Chris

[Charlie585]

Hi Malcom,

They appear to be Churchill (Fig294) sealed 1956.

If I am correct I believe they are rare items and sell for a small fortune.

Regards

Ry

[mjw]

Hello Chris,

Thank you for the reply. I have enclosed a scan of the reverse. It is not good as the back of the badge is to reflective. However it does show the lug.

Kind regards, Malcolm.

[mjw]

Hello Ry,

I am hoping this will be the case – although I am expecting them to be anything but!

I am not a collector of collar badges, so if these turn out to be positive maybe they will turn into something of more interest to me.

Kind regards, Malcolm.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by mjw

Hello Chris,

Thank you for the reply. I have enclosed a scan of the reverse. It is not good as the back of the badge is to reflective. However it does show the lug.

Kind regards, Malcolm.

Hi Malcolm,

Be aware that I know nothing about collar badges as I have never studied them and have no idea if these particular pieces were were ever officially authorised for issue.

BUT

I would say that from a manufacturing point of view that they are good and that they were probably made by Firmin.

Regards

Chris

[grey_green_acorn]

An identical pair of Royal Norfolk anodised collar badges sold for £192 on ebay a few months ago along with several pairs of other rare anodised collar badges - all went for high prices!

Tim