GURKHA MILITARY POLICE - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

engr9266 · #1 12-09-09, 03:54 PM

I have brought this badge to the GMP recently as the description said "Staybrite: Gurkha Military Police Staybright Cap Badge" and for only £10 I thought I had a bargain But when it arrived it certainly wasn't "STAYBRITE" but IMHO a modern repro badge. I contacted the vendor and received this reply on my second e mail:-

[QUOTE]I am sorry to hear your not happy with the badge. I have read the listing and I did say it was a staybright which is of course incorrect, however, it is NOT a modern reproduction. Before the introductuon of staybrights this regiment which was formed in the 1940s used these metal badges in the 1950s and 1960s it is certainly NOT a reproduction just a pre-staybright version, I know its genuine because I took it from a display that case that hadn't been opened in 30 years, when I listed it I used a standard listing tool not realising it said "staybright" instead of original. I will of course refund you your money less postage as soon as the badge has been recieved.[QUOTE]
The badge is made of white metal with a brass slider fixed by very shiny gold colour solder with no maker marks.
Can anyone throw any light on this item as to if it is real or repro??
Regards Jerry.
p.s. sorry about pictures, c**p at close up's

Alan O · #2 12-09-09, 04:09 PM

I would be 99% sure that it was repro. The badge is Q/C. As such it is post 1954. Most badges were either marked by this time or made in a/a.

Alan

ORISKANY · #3 12-09-09, 06:14 PM

A WELL KNOWN COPY OF THE STAYBRIGHT/ANODISED ALUMINIUM VERSION. MADE SINCE THE DEMISE OF THIS UNIT. ORIGINAL BADGES ARE STILL AVAILABLE AND DO APPEAR FROM TIME TO TIME ON EBAY.

hagwalther · #4 16-09-09, 08:58 AM

Hi Jerry,

If you are looking for an anodised aluminium version in silver I would advise you to stop. I have not come across one in any official documentation and there is not one in the IWM British Army collection dated 1970.

Gold ones are quite common.

If I find official documentation re: officially authorised for issue I will let you know. Silver ones may exist but at the moment as far as I'm concerned they are either factory errors or unofficial commissions.

Regards

Chris

Neil Pearce · #5 16-09-09, 09:54 AM

Hi Jerry

Have the checked some info that I have and as luck would have it, I have pretty much everything except the reference work needed!

There is a Gurhka Museum publication called "Insignia of Gurkha units in the British Army Raised after 1947" This was published in March 2006, but having checked the site, it seems to be unavailable. Their reference works are very comprehensive

Can I suggest you email them at curator@thegurkhamuseum.co.uk I have found them most helpful in the past! They also have other publications, and may "print and bind" if you ask them nicely...

Good luck!

Neil

Gurkha · #6 16-09-09, 02:46 PM

Hi,
having been researching the GMP a while for a article and spent many hours in conversation with ex GMP members and at the records office. I can confirm that the GMP badge was only made for OR's/NCO's in Gold coloured AA.Fitted with a slider most marked 'Gaunts'.
Officers & WO's had a silver plate badge but this was fretted to a high standard. The EIIR being most distinctive areas

the badge was 'sealed' on the 23/06/59 both for officers and OR's. There were supply problams to malaya as a memo exsists from FELF dated 23/12/60 asking about when the badges would be delivered. A sample badge had been sent to the Rgt for a photo shoot of the badging. This was used to produce a mould for locally cast versions of these badges in brass with cast lugs.

The market is flooded with these WM 'fantasy badges'. Who ever is making them got the metal wrong.

The unapproved badge worn prior to this was WM for OR and has a gilt crown and scroll for Officers

The book mention for post 47 units is not yet published and is still being proof read.

Regards
Steve

hagwalther · #7 16-09-09, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Hi,
having been researching the GMP a while for a article and spent many hours in conversation with ex GMP members and at the records office. I can confirm that the GMP badge was only made for OR's/NCO's in Gold coloured AA.Fitted with a slider most marked 'Gaunts'.
Officers & WO's had a silver plate badge but this was fretted to a high standard. The EIIR being most distinctive areas

the badge was 'sealed' on the 23/06/59 both for officers and OR's. There were supply problams to malaya as a memo exsists from FELF dated 23/12/60 asking about when the badges would be delivered. A sample badge had been sent to the Rgt for a photo shoot of the badging. This was used to produce a mould for locally cast versions of these badges in brass with cast lugs.

The market is flooded with these WM 'fantasy badges'. Who ever is making them got the metal wrong.

The unapproved badge worn prior to this was WM for OR and has a gilt crown and scroll for Officers

The book mention for post 47 units is not yet published and is still being proof read.

Regards
Steve

Thanks Steve,

This is a very important post you have written.

Do you have access to the A/A pattern card or an image of it?

If possible, I would like a few more details from it for my research.

Regards

Chris

engr9266 · #8 17-09-09, 09:59 AM

STEVE, Thanks for your post and to the others who replied. That clears my question.
Can I have your permission to use your image in my collection to show what the badge looks like and that I require a sample as well.
Thank you,
Jerry.

Gurkha · #9 17-09-09, 08:49 PM

Jerry feel free, Initally the unit comprised of seperate companies of British OR's and Gurkha OR's all badged as RMP. BOR's wearing normal headress of red cap etc and the hat felt gurkha with a Red band, the gurkha's normal gurkha headress with RMP badge.
A new CO designed and introduced a locally made badge known as the Bonniface badge. this was in cap, collars and also an unoffical title. He was admonished by senior officers in the MOD, but got away with it for quite a while,

Chris,
I havent located the pattern card yet (if it still exsists) but I have located the full file relating to all the insignia, design, correspondence etc.
Dates for sealing
OR's Cap 23/06/59
officers Cap 23/06/59
OR's collars 01/09/60
Officers Collars 01/09/60
Battledress Title 22/01/59
Metal title 01/09/60

Memo of oct 58 from director of Ordanance Service confirms metals and state inital order of 600 sets + maintainence.
There is a letter from Gaunts dated 06/06/58, Firmin dated 12/03/59 confirming contract number NX/D/0193, one from Timmings dated 26/03/59 Contract ref CTSB. It seems Timmings got the contact for collars and titles. I assume Gaunts for the OR's AA badges as all of the dozens I have seen have been marked Gaunts. Never seen one marked to Firmin.

Other bits, A memo dated 14/11/60 staes they are available for issue and gives catalogue numbers CB 8191 Badges Cap and CB 8213 Titles arm embroidered.
Hope thats of some use.
Heres Little and large, with thanks to an ex member of the GMP.

hagwalther · #10 17-09-09, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Chris,
I havent located the pattern card yet (if it still exsists) but I have located the full file relating to all the insignia, design, correspondence etc.
Dates for sealing
OR's Cap 23/06/59

Memo of oct 58 from director of Ordanance Service confirms metals and state inital order of 600 sets + maintainence.
There is a letter from Gaunts dated 06/06/58, Firmin dated 12/03/59 confirming contract number NX/D/0193, one from Timmings dated 26/03/59 Contract ref CTSB. It seems Timmings got the contact for collars and titles. I assume Gaunts for the OR's AA badges as all of the dozens I have seen have been marked Gaunts. Never seen one marked to Firmin.

Other bits, A memo dated 14/11/60 staes they are available for issue and gives catalogue numbers CB 8191 Badges Cap and CB 8213 Titles arm embroidered.
Hope thats of some use.
Heres Little and large, with thanks to an ex member of the GMP.

Hi Gurkha,

Thanks - CB 8191 is for the A/A badge and this also shows up in CCN of 1963 - if may also be in an earlier edition but I have none earlier than 1963 - if anyone has any CCN's or COSA's please contact me.

re: pattern cards - this is one master and possibly upto 5 or 6 standard pattern cards made so hopefully one will turn up. If you come across one please let me know as there is a lot of other info I wish to log.

Regards

Chris

Mike H · #11 18-09-09, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Hi,
having been researching the GMP a while for a article and spent many hours in conversation with ex GMP members and at the records office. I can confirm that the GMP badge was only made for OR's/NCO's in Gold coloured AA.Fitted with a slider most marked 'Gaunts'.
Officers & WO's had a silver plate badge but this was fretted to a high standard. The EIIR being most distinctive areas

the badge was 'sealed' on the 23/06/59 both for officers and OR's. There were supply problams to malaya as a memo exsists from FELF dated 23/12/60 asking about when the badges would be delivered. A sample badge had been sent to the Rgt for a photo shoot of the badging. This was used to produce a mould for locally cast versions of these badges in brass with cast lugs.

The market is flooded with these WM 'fantasy badges'. Who ever is making them got the metal wrong.

The unapproved badge worn prior to this was WM for OR and has a gilt crown and scroll for Officers

The book mention for post 47 units is not yet published and is still being proof read.

Regards
Steve

The thumbnail shown is one of the 2 shown in K&K alongside the standard badge.

Gurkha · #12 18-09-09, 02:50 PM

Indeed it is, but Hugh didnt have all the facts and got it wrong about it only being an officers cap. Having known Hugh since I was 14 and spent many hours with him, Indian Badges were not his field despite having a first class collection.

Chris If I find/locate a sealed pattern card I will copy all details shown on it.

regards

Steve

bess55 · #13 24-09-09, 04:39 PM

Hi Gents,
All of the above very interesting indeed, many thanks.

Now I have both gilt and silver versions of this cap badge (and collars in gilt) in anodised alluminium. Both are maker marked FIRMIN LONDON on the slider. They appear fine as any bona fide a/a badge can.

I accept that the silver badge would appear to be a makers error, however one I would expect with LB&B but not necessarily with Firmins.

Regards all, however I take all the above on board.

Bess.

hagwalther · #14 24-09-09, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bess55

Hi Gents,
All of the above very interesting indeed, many thanks.

Now I have both gilt and silver versions of this cap badge (and collars in gilt) in anodised alluminium. Both are maker marked FIRMIN LONDON on the slider. They appear fine as any bona fide a/a badge can.

I accept that the silver badge would appear to be a makers error, however one I would expect with LB&B but not necessarily with Firmins.

Regards all, however I take all the above on board.

Bess.

Hi Bess,

Take my word for it - any badge could be cocked up regardless of who made it.

Regards

Chris

Lambo · #15 01-10-09, 10:18 AM

Hi Steve Stumbled across this site by way of good fortune, I've been trying to track down the badge you've shown, I have a black & white photo circa 1954 of my father wearing the same cap badge but all endeavours to procure one have failed. All ones I've found have the Laurel wreath surrounding it as per Jerry's photo. I remember seeing a few of these in the display cabinets about 10-15 yrs ago when the RMP corps depot was at Chi, but since it's relocated the curator at Southwick Park seems unable to help me. Does anybody know where I can obtain one, as they seem to be like Hens teeth? I would like to present it to my father as he misplaced his sometime ago.
Regards Andy