ASC Collar Dogs.

[thursdaychris]

Hello all, the fact that my few remaining braincells have yet to permit me to send images make me reluctant to bother any of you good chaps. However, an ASC collar dog I obtained via eBay several weeks ago has encouraged me to exercise my typing finger once more. This collar dog came as part of what was described as a near matching pair, silver in colour with the garter and monogram in white enamel. The monograms are somewhat different though, one has the expected superimposed ASC, the other does not have the A, instead it has what looks like a spindly V. Yesterday,whilst browsing through a dealers website I came across a brass badge of the pre 1923 Supply & Transport Corps of the Indian Army. The monogram in this badge looks just the same as that in my collar dog, so it seems I may have a rather mismatched pair in my collection. I guess that I'll have to start looking for another example of each type, I suppose that two pairs are better than one!!!
Regards Chris.

[Fatboy Ken]

Hiya Chris
Welcome to the forum, enjoy, .........

As you have guessed, you have what is 2 seperate collar badges;
1. Officers "Best Dress Collar Badge ASC
(there are 3 types, a."Thick letters, b."Thin Letters flat topped A", c. KC/QVC

2. Officers best dress Collar Badge S&TC (Indian ASC)

The S&TC of the Indian Army was a seperate entity too the ASC, that is why they were not allowed to use the ASC monogram in their title, and was run in a completely different format. There was no proper command and control of their lines of communications, and they were for ever, unable to carryout their tasking correctly. (They were parked up more than moving)

Info only
I do not collect S&TC badges as they are of a different nation, and were never a part of the British Army. They had British Officers & Commanders, but they were privately paid by the Governments of the day, and controlled as such as well, hence the total lack of proper control of the force. The commanders knew what to do, but were forever having their hands tied due to the lack of funding, animals, vehicles, manpower and of course "understanding" of command and control of the lines LoC's (Lines of Communications)
FBK

[CftD]

If the ASC collar with the white enamel centre is silver in colour, isn't it a Volunteer Officers' pattern ? David

[Fatboy Ken]

I have no references to there being a seperate collar badge for the volunteers officers David. My reference book;

Badges & Insignia of the RASC, RCT & their Predecessors, and other related books of the Corps, does not mention such a difference in "collars".

This does not show a version of the collar for Volunteers, Officers or OR's, so i'm unable to comment on that. That doesn't mean they do not exist though, as I've got some extremely unusual badges, that are not in the book, as I expect other collectors have found over the years.

In my opinion (IMO) "only", these badges could be worn by both the Regulars & Volunteer Officers as best dress collars, and the White Metal (WM) cap badges "only" would distinguish their difference in service to the crown, one being the Regular soldier, the other being the Volunteer soldier.

Once again I've fallen foul of the photographic image problem, that I need to start looking for. FBK

[CftD]

Having bought Bill Dear's 4 card collection of ASC/RASC and predecessor units in the mid 1970s, I am aware that regular troops worn gilt/brass and volunteer troops wore silver/white metal. This is also evidenced by the occasional badge and shoulder title that appears on the internet. If the backing plate of the badge (collar badge to Helmet plate) is white metal, the item relates to ASC volunteer units. David

[Fatboy Ken]

Thank you for the information David, I've taken note of your input and i'm most greatful to you for that. I'm learning more all the time, and i've more to look out for. I now have Volunteer collars, and not regular, ........... amazing. Ken