Lambourne & Co Lambourne's dating - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

RSM · #1 19-01-21, 06:13 PM

Considering recent posts on this subject, I’ve decided to write up my thoughts to date, because I feel that there is some evidence to suggest that the Lambourne & Co Mark was used first, followed by the Lambourne’s Mark. I will lay out the evidence below with the caveat that this is all very much a work in progress. I appreciate some of the evidence is peripheral, that it’s subject to a fellow collector turning up an example that contradicts, and that in the badge collecting game one can “never say never”.

I would first like to point out that where I use the Co I am intending to represent the ‘lifted’ lowercase ‘o’ underscored as seen on known original items. For Lambourne’s, examples are known with either an apostrophe between the e and s, or a space between the e and s where an apostrophe should be. (The latter mooted as a worn die). For clarification please see the Maker’s Mark section of the forum.

The company was, prior to World War 1, a family-run business based in Birmingham manufacturing buttons and the like for the fashion industry. Pre WW1 civilian examples I have noted all carry the Lambourne & Co Makers Mark. It is not clear when the company was first formed, but in approximately 1912-13 (another source indicates 1911) the company moved into Empire House, 158-161 Great Charles Street, one of many such companies in Birmingham's jewellery quarter, of which today little still remains. The Company remained there throughout WW1. To date, It is not clear exactly when the Company started making military-related items. It is known however that it did.

The earliest military contenders for the Company are associated with the Imperial Yeomanry. I have come across a few IY shoulder titles online marked Lambourne & Co. I have never seen the Lambourne’s mark used on these. For an example see here, in particular post #15:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=53687

Regardless of the finer points as to whether it is a shoulder title or hat badge, and exactly what unit it was affiliated to, it must be pre-1908, the year in which the Imperial Yeomanry was stood down? Note it is a Lambourne & Co Makers Mark.I am also aware that I saw online a sweetheart badge for the Bedfordshire Imperial Yeomanry, stamped with a Lambourne & Co Makers Mark. Again this must have been made, at latest, circa 1908?

A second early contender is the Imperial Service Badge. Introduced in 1910, the ISB produced by this Company has been only seen, to the best of my current knowledge, with the Lambourne & Co Maker’s Mark, never a Lambourne’s Mark. Here for a few samples:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=49233

The ISB was, apparently, by and large phased out by 1915/16. It is not known exactly when Lambourne & Co started making their ISB’s. It could have been as early as 1910, it could have been as late as 1915. Either way, all the current evidence points to only the Lambourne & Co Maker Mark being used on this badge.

Further evidence of the Lambourne & Co Mark being the earlier of the two Maker Mark options is provided by some superb research here:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ight=lambourne

This clearly shows that the Board of Trade recognised Lambourne & Co as a manufacturer of ‘badges, metal’. No mention whatsoever of Lambourne’s. As the research indicates, Lambourne & Co were contracted by the War Office from May 1915 through to August 1917, assumedly for the regimental cap badges/titles/collars etc that we seek to collect today.

More, albeit peripheral, evidence is provided by the existence of ‘sweetheart’ badges silver-hallmarked by the maker. Although these are of course highly unlikely to have been produced under WO contracts, they do suffice to prove that the Lambourne & Co Maker Mark was being used during the contract dates mentioned above, and it is an fair assumption the same maker mark was used for WO contract items. Here are the examples I have tracked down over the past few months:

4th/5th Battalion Royal Scots. Hallmarked 1915. Lambourne & Co
Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. Hallmarked 1916. Lambourne & Co
Army Veterinary Corps. Hallmarked 1916. Lambourne & Co
RAMC. Hallmarked 1915. Lambourne & Co
Queens Own Cameron Highlanders. Hallmarked 1916. Lambourne & Co
Glasgow Highlanders. Hallmarked 1915. Lambourne & Co
KRRC. Hallmarked 1916. Lambourne & Co
London Fusiliers. Hallmarked 1916. Lambourne & Co

It is also perhaps worth noting that all these sweethearts are also stamped in addition with an abbreviated 'L&Co' Mark. These examples are all I am currently aware of. To be fair, only eight samples of perhaps many thousands produced, but I have yet to see a Lambourne’s Maker mark on a sweetheart for the years 1915/16. I’m sure others will surface and It will certainly be interesting to see what dates/Makers Mark they show.

Thus, so far, up to and including August 1917, everything noted above points to Lambourne & Co being the only Mark used on their items. And then two pieces of evidence turn up that reflects a change in the Company name. The first is the wound stripe, as worn on the left sleeve. First introduced in 1916 (Army Order 249), this order originally stipulated the stripe was to be of a fabric ‘Russia Braid’. However, it became apparent that the braid did not easily survive the rigours of duty, and in mid 1917 a Birmingham manufacturer not far from Lambourne & Co applied to patent a brass version. See here:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publ...C&locale=en_EP

It shows that the patent was accepted a year later, May 1918, but it possibly was being made and distributed at an earlier date. (However I assume that some sort of pattern card would be approved by the War Office/uniform inspectorate for such a uniform item?) Either way, several brass variations exist, and if the patent noted above is anything to go by, the earliest brass versions did not appear on uniforms until perhaps mid to late 1917, maybe 1918? Of relevance is that a version of the brass wound stripe can be found bearing the name Lambourne’s, and considering the wound stripe was worn up to its abolishment in 1922, and no known Lambourne & Co examples are to be found, it indicates the Lambourne’s Mark is to the latter part of the Great War? Examples of the Lambourne’s wound stripe can be seen here:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...t=wound+stripe

The fundamental point is that these late war pieces of uniform insignia are not stamped Lambourne & Co, but Lambourne’s. Maybe sometime in late 1917 (after August as per the Board of Trade contract seen above) there was a change in Company name? Maybe, not to be ruled out. My final evidence comes here:

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1918DME-p401.jpg

As can be seen, the 1918 Directory of Manufacturers and Allied Trades clearly states:

Lambourne’s, Great Charles Street. Military badge, buttons etc. with a workforce of 8 male and 80 females. (Also note it’s Trading/As ‘Solitaires’, possibly indicating the company reverting to the civilian market?).

(It is not clear exactly when this directory was published. It may not have been published until mid 1918!?)

So to sum up. Based on the current evidence I can find, it appears that Lambourne & Co made military items throughout the Great war, prior from as early as 1900-1908 (IY), 1910-1915 (ISB), certainly from 1915 to 1917 as per the WO contracts. Sometime by perhaps late 1917 or early 1918 the company, for whatever reason, changed its name to Lambourne’s, and under that banner was producing, at the least, the wound stripe. This could, perhaps, indicate that the badges we find with Lambourne & Co are of the ‘earlier period’, with a crossover period late 1917/early 1918 as the company changed names (one assumes cap badge sliders stamped with Lambourne & Co were used up before the Lambourne’s sliders went into production?) The Company seemed to have stopped producing badges once hostilities had ceased. Certainly by 1922 a Lambourne’s advertising poster makes no mention of any military items, seemingly having reverted to its prewar manufacture of civilian fashion accessories. https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:I...Lambournes.jpg

I have no knowledge of Lambourne’s mass producing cap badges and the like in WW2, there is a hint that they might of made officer’s ‘bespoke’ insignia, but it appears they did make lapel badges, tie pins, cufflinks, sweethearts and the like for the WW2 generation.

mike_vee · #2 19-01-21, 06:21 PM

Info I posted in the other thread :

Quote:

Just to add to the confusion I found this on-line :

Peck's Trades Directory of Birmingham, 1896-97

Lambourne & Co, jewellery, Granville street

From Grace's Guide

"1886 The company was founded (presumably by Thomas Barrett Lambourne), to produce Spats, Rigid Braces, Buttons and Studs for the gentry. Initially had premises in Granville Street and Great Western Buildings, Livery Street."

"1911 Moved to premises in Great Charles Street, Birmingham."

.

manchesters · #3 19-01-21, 06:24 PM

RSM, Thanks for a very clear explanation. Well done. Regards

grenadierguardsman · #4 19-01-21, 07:12 PM

Good read RSM thank you.
Andy

Luke H · #5 19-01-21, 07:20 PM

RSM,

You’ve summed up very nicely the physical evidence we have of genuine items dovetailed with the records we know.

Dating the marks is an excellent question and one I’ve pondered with Julian (KLR) on a couple of occasions. No answers sadly other than they were both used together at least at one point i.e. the 1916 all GMs which exhibit both marks.

As to the IY shoulder titles I don’t wonder if like several wartime cap badge patterns they used the old obsolete design or are a mistake. Several Yeomanry were still using their I.Y. period cap badges during the war, this is born out in period photos. I feel this was both existing old stock and also newly produced I.Y. badges using the outdated design, see here...

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...loucestershire

Is there not also the potential for use of erroneous or outdated patterns to extend beyond cap badges to STs also? I think there’s potential.

Similarly I feel their ISB’s are likely early wartime. The man in my link wears such a badge and is a 1914 volunteer, therefore demand may have been higher than expected for these even taking into account discontinuance in 1915.

My gut feeling is they were a wartime only maker of militaria and the IY title is a red herring. Others may disagree, this is only my opinion badges on my limited collecting experience and observations.

Luke

CAM · #6 19-01-21, 07:35 PM

RSM,

Thank you.

RSM · #7 19-01-21, 07:35 PM

Luke,

A couple of points. With regards to the all-GM 1916 badges, these were, I believe, manufactured up until the end of the war? I recall they were rescinded in 1919 when manufacturers were told to revert to the pre-war bi-metal badge? I'm thinking therefore that the Lambourne & Co stamped versions were the earlier versions, the Lambourne's versions later. The Dies of course don't change. The sliders do; from one name to another.

I can't disagree with you about the IY insignia. My knowledge on that subject is minimal. However, the Beds IY sweetheart still backs my case that the Lambourne & Co MM is the earlier of the two maker's marks. I don't ever think a pre-1908 IY unit sweetheart badge will ever be found marked with Lambourne's. Of course, one can never say never.........

KLR · #8 19-01-21, 07:51 PM

I've been thinking for years of going to Companies House in Cardiff to look up badge manufacturers. I went to Birmingham archives years ago but I don't think I found Lambourne - but loads of other makers kept me busy!

Luke H · #9 19-01-21, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSM

Luke,

A couple of points. With regards to the all-GM 1916 badges, these were, I believe, manufactured up until the end of the war? I recall they were rescinded in 1919 when manufacturers were told to revert to the pre-war bi-metal badge? I'm thinking therefore that the Lambourne & Co stamped versions were the earlier versions, the Lambourne's versions later. The Dies of course don't change. The sliders do; from one name to another.

Julian’s sterling research has shown that the WO ordered 10,000 Leinster Regt all GM badges in 1916.

My money is on the order then being subcontracted out accounting for the various manufacturers of this badge.

Obviously I stand to be corrected but given the Leinsters low number of battalions (2 reg, 3 reserve & 2 service) and that 3 of those stayed on home defence all war would further orders and production runs have been necessary had that order been fulfilled? I doubt it.

But, never say never.

High Wood · #10 19-01-21, 09:53 PM

I thought that I would throw this one into the mix.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=87273

Luke H · #11 19-01-21, 10:16 PM

Nice. Not an OSD in my belief however.

Could you confirm the size please Simon?

I have been the happy owner of this badge with a Lambourne’s plaque for a few years now.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...13&postcount=2

As you can see my one is voided between the neck/chain and torse/chain.

fwhittle · #12 20-01-21, 01:05 PM

I have this Bedfordshire Imperial Yeomanry title marked Lambourne & Co Birmingham

Nozzer · #13 20-01-21, 05:05 PM

Excellent thread, Thanks.

Not very clear, but I have a Machine Gun Corps Shoulder title that is marked LAMBOURNE'S BIRMINGHAM which I guess would have been manufactured between 1915 and 1922.

RSM · #14 21-01-21, 08:28 PM

Thanks to all for the responses. A subject that interests me, and I would urge any fellow enthusiast who has items of interest related to this matter to post here.

Whilst I agree with Luke H that L&Co were predominantly a WW1 maker, the fact that another ST with IY links has surfaced above doesn't completely rule out that the company was not producing some military items before WW1? The fact is that all the L&Co IY items I have noted to date are either ST's or sweethearts. It may be that having built up the skill set to produce ST's brought the company some kudos when tendering for wartime WO contracts? Just thinking aloud.

Also very interested indeed to note the buttons. Thanks for posting. For a company who made buttons pre-WW1 I have always been surprised to see how scarce military L&Co buttons are. Again I would love to learn of other examples.

Thanks again everyone.

Richard.

KLR · #15 22-01-21, 10:44 AM

If it's any help, I've put up my Lambourne badges in my album (which I'm trying to tidy up)

The only other KLR Lambourne badges is the 6th Bn (Lpl Rifles) - with

LAMBOURNE & C o / BIRMINGHAM

I have never seen the the other mark - LAMBOURNE’S / BIRMINGHAM on a 6th Bn badge (and I don't think anyone has either!)