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  #1  
Old 17-08-08, 04:02 PM
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Default J.R. GAUNT maker marks

Hello Folks,
I am a bit confused by the maker marks from J.R. GAUNT.

It seems the J.R.GAUNT.LONDON 14,65mm lenght is a maker mark faked.
I have a restrike of a Green Howards cap badge with this mark. I also have a modern chromed badge of the Buffs which is actually worn by veterans of the 141st RAC at reunion. It has the same mark J.R.GAUNT.LONDON 14,65mm with the dot between GAUNT and LONDON. But I think it is hard to say it is a fake as it is a modern cap badge sold to the veterans association for reunions.

To complicate the debat I have an old and worn cap badge for the Royal Norfolk post 1935 pattern, which also has the maker mark J.R.GAUNT.LONDON with dot between GAUNT and LONDON. But its lenght is smaller than the faked mark as it sizes only 11mm

Do I conclude there is one pattern of J.R.GAUNT mark with a dot between GAUNT and LONDON which is original?

Thumbnails from the left : Original mark 11mm with dot (Royal Norfolk), faked mark 14,65mm (Green Howards), modern chromed cap badge Buffs 14,65mm (veterans reunion cap badge).

Cheers.
J-F
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Royal Norfolk JR.G 11mm.JPG (20.6 KB, 162 views)
File Type: jpg GH restrike JRG 14,65mm.JPG (8.2 KB, 138 views)
File Type: jpg 141 RAC veteran badge JRG 14,65mm.JPG (10.1 KB, 122 views)
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  #2  
Old 17-08-08, 05:21 PM
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JF,

The smallest mark is indeed correct for WW2 era badges (but only a few). To be honest it is so small I cannot make out a full stop on mine.
The other fonts are indeed seen on modern fakes.

Alan
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  #3  
Old 17-08-08, 05:41 PM
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Thanks Alan, confusion solved for me. You can use the smallest mark in the Maker Marks project if it can help the understanding of the different marks.
Cheers.
J-F
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  #4  
Old 17-08-08, 08:35 PM
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Default Gaunt

The Gaunt London mark is a mark well known to button collectors. It was used to fake many rarer infantry buttons (including several pre 1922 Irish) and in that context is to be avoided at all costs. Needless to say, buttons bearing that mark from 1940-1959 would probably be genuine - including the WW2 cavalry regiments (22D to 27L) but beware any pre 1940 buttons (or badges) with that mark. The name of the offender is available by PM to anyone interested. Regards - and still being careful out there- David
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Old 18-08-08, 08:02 PM
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Default Gaunt Buttons

There are indeed lots of fake buttons with the Gaunt mark, the key to these is a miss struck "T" which is almost non-existent.
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  #6  
Old 18-08-08, 08:11 PM
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Default J. R. Gaunt etc.

The REAL key to spotting fakes is to know and understand when badge and button makers used specific marks. Gaunt London is - and always will be - 1940-1959 and no other period ! Please also understand that many of the Gaunt dies were acquired by a spurious party who used them to financial advantage with no regard whatsoever for authenticity - pure greed !!! I am now considering opening a new thread which concentrates on the trend in many posts to over-prescribe the detail on a badge. The further we examine production in the 20th century one thing becomes apparent - the only product to be churned out with greater mass production is the sausage ! Regards to all. David
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  #7  
Old 18-08-08, 08:21 PM
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Default J. R. Gaunt etc.

Alan - Yes, of course, you are right. They were faked by the same person ! The dies really did fall into unscrupulous hands and the villain responsible has caused collectors many a headache. The power of money ! Regards. David
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Old 20-08-08, 11:14 AM
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here is a another at 10.5mm on a SLI shoulder title. I was 100% certain it was ok and the badge has been sold on ebay. just noticed it looks like it has a faint dot.


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Old 21-08-08, 10:20 AM
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Mike,
I've only just got around to measuring;
11.2mm in length and the letters are 0.9mm high.

This one has 2 circular braze holes 3.2mm in diameter (a little larger than many), though I know there is a version without them
Julian

PS I got the date wrong by 900 years - sorry !
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Old 22-08-08, 07:14 AM
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Glad to hear that Julian, looks like the small amount of alleged genuine gaunt with a dot marks reported are noticeably shorter in length, similar to the other good gaunt marks. So a different stamp altogether.
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  #11  
Old 23-08-08, 05:41 PM
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updated the gaunt page, with, what I think is the current opinion on the "gaunt dots" and "no dots" saga. (this actually makes sense now - to me anyway)

I think the small variations in length we arrive at when measuring these marks is due the the degree of bulging out of the metal when the stamp displaces the brass, which will depend on the force it's struck with.
anyway, seems to be consistently 15mm and 11mm plus or minus 0.5mm


have also added a 'gaunt, late jennens' onto that page as well, courtesy "Gurkha"
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Old 23-08-08, 09:23 PM
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Just to see if I have understood right. If the makers mark has a "." between Gaunt and London, and measures approx 15mm, then its a restrike.

If thats right, then I have 2 more duds, Intell Corp(KC) and AAC(KC).
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  #13  
Old 23-08-08, 09:29 PM
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I have an absolutley original WW2 AAC k/c badge and I am afraid that it is lugged.

Alan
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  #14  
Old 23-08-08, 09:39 PM
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Thanks Alan

From what you said, can I assume that the ACC badges were lugs only?
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  #15  
Old 23-08-08, 09:42 PM
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I can't say that for sure but a I can say that lugged ones were definately correct. Post apicture of yours and I will tell you what I think about the mark.
Alan
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