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  #16  
Old 19-08-16, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postwarden View Post
This picture from Tanks and Tank Folk by Eric Kennington shows the NCO's arm badge worn by a WO with a backing of similar shape to that on your BD.

It was cavalry and yeomanry practice that these arm badges were only worn on the right arm which raises the question as to what was worn on the patch on the other arm which is in any case of a different shape.

The Westminster Dragoons served with 79th Armoured Division as a flail tank regiment from October 1943 until the end of the war.

Jon
Could the patch on the left arm have been the backing for a trade badge of some nature - an oval wreath containing a letter - even if worn unofficially? Mike
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  #17  
Old 19-08-16, 09:54 AM
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Hi Alan
During my research into the mention in despatches award and using the website of Mr Peter Ghiringhelli B.A.(Hons), M.A. at http://www.petergh.f2s.com/medals.htm
I came to the conclusion that the award may have been made during ww1 in either a civilian role or as a p.o.w based on the following

''WW1 Mention in Despatches

In January 1920, Army Order 3, authorised the issuing of an emblem of multiple oak leaves in bronze to be issued to those who had been Mentioned in Despatches between August 4, 1914 and August 10, 1920. This could be for gallantry in action or for a wide range of services on and off the battlefield. The emblem was to be worn on the ribbon of the Victory Medal or on the ribbon of the War Medal if no Victory Medal had been issued. Only one emblem could be worn no matter how often the recipient had been mentioned in despatches; if no medals had been issued, as in the case of civilians, then it was worn directly on the lapel of the jacket. ''

Followed by

'' Mention in Despatches WW2
In 1920, the emblem was changed from a branch of oak leaves (WW1 - see above) to a single oak leaf and this was used in WW2 for all arms including the Merchant Navy, for a Mention in Despatches, a King's Commendation for brave conduct, or a King's Commendation for service in the air. The WW2 single oak leaf emblem is worn on the War Medal 1939-1945 ribbon. In the absence of the War Medal, it is worn directly on the coat to the right of any other ribbons. ''
(source Mr Ghirinighelli's webpage)

The mystery continues but its also been a valuable and enjoyable education along the way...once again thank you for the input folks
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  #18  
Old 19-08-16, 01:32 PM
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I would agree that a Trade badge is a strong possibility. However not a letter in wreath type for a Sergeant but possibly the hammer and pincers for a unit fitter or armourer?

Whatever the badge we should not be over concerned about the positioning which might not be in compliance with regulations!

Tim
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  #19  
Old 19-08-16, 01:45 PM
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I'd say metal crown, for rank of Sgt of Horse... or (Sgt in other regiments).

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  #20  
Old 19-08-16, 01:56 PM
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But not above the chevrons on the right arm? Where there is the RTR tank.

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  #21  
Old 19-08-16, 02:25 PM
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This was my thinking, it was perhaps a nod to tradition if it was not something officially carried on? only thing that makes sense for the shape.... the fitters device is surely too big I'd have thought..... seeing how carefully the other badge patch is shaped....
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  #22  
Old 21-08-16, 11:46 PM
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Hi again folks
Came across the attached picture and finding the ''Types of Drivers badges'' thread and the excellent picture of various drivers badges posted by grey_green_acorn could the ''missing badge'' be something as overlooked as a 5 pointed star ?
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File Type: jpg 104584-e110668ba7e14bec3c24d3a877979a9d.jpg (23.6 KB, 66 views)
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  #23  
Old 22-08-16, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magu View Post
Hi Alan
During my research into the mention in despatches award and using the website of Mr Peter Ghiringhelli B.A.(Hons), M.A. at http://www.petergh.f2s.com/medals.htm
I came to the conclusion that the award may have been made during ww1 in either a civilian role or as a p.o.w based on the following . . . . .
In all likelihood (and probably the simplest answer), the MID is not mounted on a medal riband because, at the time that the soldier had that particular BD jacket, the 1939-45 War Medal had not yet been authorized (that didn't happen until June 1946) and thus not yet issued to him. The two ribands that are on the jacket are the 39-45 Star and the France and Germany Star. That second ribbon would indicate operational service after 6 June 1944. From my cursory study, the campaign stars were the first medals authorized for WW2 service, starting with the Africa Star being the first ribbon available (1943?) with the authorization of the other stars by mid-1945(the actual gongs were not generally made and distributed until after the war ended).

In looking through a number of photos from the 1945/46 time frame showing uniforms with ribbons visible I've found a few where (some?) campaign star ribbons are there but the War Medal is not. Unfortunately none of those photos involve individuals who were MID during that war.

While the following was Canadian Army direction in August 1946, regulations and availability of medals/ribbons in the British Army would likely have been similar.
http://regimentalrogue.com/misc/wwii_medals_6719.html
Quote:
MENTIONS IN DESPATCHES AND KING'S COMMENDATIONS

56. The single bronze oak leaf Emblem signifying in the Forces and the Merchant Navy, either a Mention in Despatches, a King's Commendation for brave conduct, or a King's Commendation for valuable service in the air, is at present attached directly to the coat after all the ribbons, or by itself. If granted for service in the war of 1939-45, it will be worn on the ribbon of The War Medal.
I did try a search of the London Gazette for members of the Westminster Dragoons awarded the MID, but had no joy.
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  #24  
Old 23-08-16, 10:50 PM
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Thank you for the wonderful comprehensive answer Blackadder ,my education continues and as if by magic....

MENTIONED IN DESPATCHES
Major B. A. Wallace
Major H. P. Stanyon
Lt B. H. Pear
Lt D. C. Potter
Lt D. C. Bright
Sjt D. Poole
Sjt C. R. Carter
Sjt T.W . McMahon
Sjt C.E.J . Whybrow Sjt R. Byrne
Sjt J. Wilson
Sjt M.W.J . Fowler
Cpl A. R. N. Adcock
Cpl A.T . McCall
Cpl J. E. Thompson (REME)
L/Cpl A.W . Milburn


Excuse the formatting,the above was cut and pasted from The WESTMINSTER DRAGOONS in North West Europe, June 1944 - May 1945" available from the library section of the WD's website http://www.westminsterdragoons.co.uk/
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  #25  
Old 07-06-19, 10:27 PM
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Hello folks
Sorry to be a necromancer however i have been doing some further research and apart from getting very bogged down with information i still haven't found out what the missing badge is . Whilst ruminating recently and looking at the outline in the felt i had an idea of the wheatsheaf of the Lothians and Border yeomanry and upon further research a whole host of information became available regarding secondments to other regiments etc

Could it have been posssible that the original owner was perhaps L & BY but seconded to W/D or perhaps vice versa ?

I have come across a picture of L& BY and there is a picture of a Sergeant wearing what appears to be a badge above his chevrons on the left arm unfortunately the resolution isnt good enough to identify

Also it appears as if their has been collar badges affixed in the past (i never thought to look closely before) 2 holes, east west orientation

Would anyone have any further info
TIA
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  #26  
Old 09-06-19, 01:15 PM
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Most interesting thread.

P.B.
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  #27  
Old 09-06-19, 02:18 PM
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Its certainly been an education ...since finding the blouse i have amassed quite a collection of books on all things armoured,made a visit to Bovington tank museum,unfortunately had no time for research as it was a day out for two relatives of mine,however, i did get to see a flail tank up close and also got quite a suprise to see photographs of the very first ideas of the tank being tested in my home town of which i was completely unaware, been in touch with an old teacher of mine i havent spoken to for nearly 40 years who has contacts within the Westminster dragoons ,amassed several more books on badges ,accoutrements,shoulder titles etc and still my quest continues...i dont actually mind if i never find out...the education along the way has been fantastic !
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