5TH DRAGOONS GUARDS BADGES.

[yorkie]

hello gentlemen could i ask your advice on the 1st badge on the photo
enclosed, all three 5th dragoons guards but what is the 1st badge for and why has it got very long lugs.
regards andy.

[Mike H]

What material is it made from ?
Could be a pouich badge.

[irishhorse]

Long lugs like these are found on officers cap badges, badge looks to be silver, which would be right.

[2747andy]

Queen's Crown badge is more than likely an officers badge, later versions were in a frosted (plated) silver finish!

Andy

[yorkie]

hello gents many thanks for your observations on the badge ,no doubt at all
the badge is silver,had it checked out with a friendly local jeweler and yet it is not hallmarked [is that legal i am not sure].
so the badge is an officers badge ,would that be an nco!. cheers andy.

[2747andy]

A lot of British Officers badges are silvered (not sure if that is solid), Officers are Lieutenants to Lieutenant Colonels* (Pronounced as Leftenant) Loo tenants are American. Halmarked badges are less common, the rank Lance Corporal and Corporal and in the Guards Lance Sergeant, The Household Cavalry (H Cav) Lance Corporal of Horse and the Artillery Bombardiers are all Junior Non-Commissioned officers (JNCO) and wear standard (Other ranks badges). Sergeants and Colour/Staff Segeants, Corporals of Horse and Staff Corporals (H Cav) are senior NCOs and in most cases wear ORs badges, Warrant Officers in some cases wear a bespoke badge, but are neither NCOs or officers. The H Cav and Guards Regiments in particular have different cap badges for OR, SNCO and WO.

Hope that has not confused too much!

*Colonels, Brigadiers and General wear staff badges.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

A lot of British Officers badges are silvered (not sure if that is solid), Officers are Lieutenants to Lieutenant Colonels* (Pronounced as Leftenant) Loo tenants are American. Halmarked badges are less common, the rank Lance Corporal and Corporal and in the Guards Lance Sergeant, The Household Cavalry (H Cav) Lance Corporal of Horse and the Artillery Bombardiers are all Junior Non-Commissioned officers (JNCO) and wear standard (Other ranks badges). Sergeants and Colour/Staff Segeants, Corporals of Horse and Staff Corporals (H Cav) are senior NCOs and in most cases wear ORs badges, Warrant Officers in some cases wear a bespoke badge, but are neither NCOs or officers. The H Cav and Guards Regiments in particular have different cap badges for OR, SNCO and WO.

Hope that has not confused too much!

*Colonels, Brigadiers and General wear staff badges.

Andy, What you have said about silver/rank/bespoke etc bears out the
ones I have (all KC) - a couple are HM'd, 2 are marked sterling and one which looks like unmarked silver but also has some sort of dark enamel(?)
within the 'grooves' i.e. it highlights the letters - this particular one is on a side cap - it looks it 'belongs' to the cap and doesn't look as if it has added
at a later date. Now I must look at the others as well. Thanks.

[NorthStafford]

It's illegal to hallmark items that aren't silver but not illegal to not hallmark items that are.

[dubaiguy]

I was trawling some back threads and came across this one from Yorkie. Hello Yorkie if still a member. Whilst Yorkie was asking for info on the QC badge, the first badge in his photo, what do members think about his third badge.

It is cast, short straight slider, the tail of the 'G' doesn't meet the Roman numeral V and there is a little loss of definition on the top of the 'D' and 'G' where they meet the crown.

I've also looked at some members albums and my reference books and can't find anything like it. Invariably the tail of the 'G' always meets or just about meets the 'V'.

Any learned opinions on why it would be different? Manufacturers cast variant? (I'm interested cos I have one exactly the same that I bought some time ago from an unreliable source).

Thanks
Mark

[wright241]

Originally Posted by yorkie

hello gentlemen could i ask your advice on the 1st badge on the photo
enclosed, all three 5th dragoons guards but what is the 1st badge for and why has it got very long lugs.
regards andy.

This has been mentioned before.
Having a silver badge assayed and hallmarked costs money - i.e. there is a charge for this 'sevice', and it can take some time. If you have the money and time.... If you don't have either then why wait... an officer may have purchase a silver badge, but he does not have to get it hallmarked. However, the hallmark does add value when 'you' come to sell it as against an unmarked one.

Ref your 5RIDG QC silver badge. I have a HMS one of these and it also has long lugs. Even some of the earlier KC ones also have this feature - I have sterling and HMS versions and one has long, the other 'normal' - I don't know why. I guess that this might be a question for the museum

david

[dubaiguy]

David, you may have misunderstood me. I understand the situation with hallmarking but my query was concerning Yorkie's scabby w/m badge on the right of his picture (sorry Yorkie).

On this badge the tail of the 'G' doesn't touch the Roman numeral V. All the ones I have seen in books or in members albums touch (as they do in Yorkie's other two badges). I do not see enough badges to ascertain if this is just a manufacturers cast variant or a dud. Your help in putting me right would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mark

[wright241]

Originally Posted by dubaiguy

David, you may have misunderstood me. I understand the situation with hallmarking but my query was concerning Yorkie's scabby w/m badge on the right of his picture (sorry Yorkie).

On this badge the tail of the 'G' doesn't touch the Roman numeral V. All the ones I have seen in books or in members albums touch (as they do in Yorkie's other two badges). I do not see enough badges to ascertain if this is just a manufacturers cast variant or a dud. Your help in putting me right would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mark

Yes I did. Sorry about that.
I have about 8 of these (but no scabby ones....... yet..) in various metals/ silver etc and with only ONE exception - the G tail and V are clearly joined by anything from 2 to 3mm.
The odd one out (funnily enough) is a Firmin HMS 1946 - where the join length (i.e. touching) is about 1mm. From the front there appears to be a gap, but from the back there is the very small join.
david

[dubaiguy]

Thanks David. Then I'm going to make an assumption that if there is a gap and until proved otherwise - it's a fake. Hey ho another one into the 'possibles' shoebox.
Mark