8th Recce Variety? Repro? - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

WJ Miller · #1 19-03-09, 06:15 AM

This is a new one to me.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=200320867923
A very well made copy of an VIII Recce badge? Not an original type cap badge and not the 1980's Scully repro either... My first thought was that it was a collar badge affixed to a different maple leaf, but it is not a collar, the size, shape and type style is different. The leaf looks like a heavy casting, but again not cast from an original. Anyone seen one of these before?

Why it is on a red beret is beyond me. I thought it was an unusual piece and had considered bidding just to acquire it as an odd example, but not at $130 (and it has not reached the reserve yet!)

Thoughts?

WJ Miller · #2 19-03-09, 06:44 AM

comparison of ebay badge to original and Scully repro.

Voltigeur · #3 19-03-09, 12:07 PM

Hi Bill, I heard a rumour a few years ago, that there was an original 8th Recce in white metal but, without the overlay. That would have been the first pattern of this badge. Ever heard anything about this.
Jo

boots and saddles · #4 19-03-09, 03:38 PM

Jo, I picked up one of these white metal ones a few years ago from the UK, & I didn't think there was any doubt about it being a repro, It certainly was.
Bill , why did Scully reproduce this badge? Was it for a reunion or something? I hadn't heard of that. Ray

Voltigeur · #5 19-03-09, 03:59 PM

Hi Ray, the all white metal one was shown to L.Grimshaw,who said was a good one,that's what I was told. As for the Scully's ones, I talked to a former employee a long time ago in the mid--80s and he told me they were for a 8th Recce reunion. That's why those have a flat back and a Scully name imprinted and funny looking lugs.
BTW, here's a photograph showing Lt.Col F.A.Vokes,wearing what I think is a white metal 8th Recce badge.
Jo
Click on the pic to enlarge.
http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/pm.php?i...210&rd=188270#

WJ Miller · #6 19-03-09, 08:50 PM

Hi Ray,
Yes, as far as I know the Scully badge was for reunion purposes. The VIII Recce did have quite an active veteran's association at one time. As per Jo's description, here is a photo of the back of the badge. The leaf is fairly thick, near to an 1/8 ". The badge is quite heavy. Interesting that the overlay and leaf are not a direct casts of an original? Most significantly, the lettering is different on the repro overlay.

Mazeus does mention a white metal version of this badge (m.b. = metal blanc). I have never handled one, but from the photos I've seen, it looks die stamped from the same original dies? However, I do not doubt the motivation to fake this badge because of thier relative scarcity in all forms.

That brings me back to my original post. Thoughts? Is this "odd" VIII Recce variant a known repro, new repro, or one off? Theatre made, hand made? It is not a crude piece, it looks pretty well made... just not original issue. Also, I can't help thinkning that the particular leaf this variant uses looks familiar?

Voltigeur · #7 19-03-09, 10:20 PM

Bill, IMHO, I think this is a "one-off" repro. The only way to appraise this badge would be in having a good look at the back.....and even then we might still end with diverging opinions.
Jo

boots and saddles · #8 19-03-09, 10:29 PM

I didn't know about the legit all white metal badge, but the one I got was a repro & a por one at thar & he had more than the one I got. Can't come up with his name now but it was in the UK. Ray

Doug N · #9 20-03-09, 02:22 AM

Just for the record, I've attached a pic of two other acknowledged variants of this badge. The ebay badge is dis-similar to both of these.

One possibilty not mentioned is that this might be a sample or prototype created in the original design / quoting process. I think this is a dark horse - I can't imagine any 'real' badge maker submitting a sample with such mis-aligned lettering.

I'm with Jo on this one - without seeing the back, I think the badge is a fake.

Voltigeur · #10 20-03-09, 11:45 AM

Hi Doug, about those two variants, can you tell me more about the one on the right. I have a reprint of an article from "T.M.C.C. Drummers Call"*(????),and the author says, in it, that <<....It was difinatively(sic) established that no variety of their badge existed, and that those found bearing the word Canada on it,reproductions.>>.....furthermore the author also say....<<Also note that other repros exist but the stem of the maple leaf is facing the opposite direction than illustrated.

* does anyone know about this T.M.C.C. Drummers Call and tell me more about it.

Jo

Moe RCNR · #11 20-03-09, 11:44 PM

I have to agree that it is fake. Perhaps a made-up badge from the rejected parts bin?
Moe.

DavidS · #12 21-03-09, 12:58 AM

The vendor has posted additional photos of the back of this badge. Looking to me like a very elaborate one-off -- a lot of work went into this so I'm tempted to speculate that this was a vet's labour of love vs. an attempt to fake badges. The close-up of the lugs and pin which shows the leaf edge looks to me that the maker has sawn the leaf out of sheet material (aluminum maybe?), then worked the detail by hand. Doesn't look cast at all. The lugs are the pins from the overlay bent over to form loops. The mystery continues.

Voltigeur · #13 23-03-09, 12:06 PM

This badge was finally sold for US$ 455.00 on 22/03/09 with the bidding done by only four bidders. Remember that the starting price was US$ 9.00.
Jo

WJ Miller · #14 23-03-09, 09:11 PM

Jo, I think that badge sold for far more than the last "real" badge I saw on ebay!!! Obviously of some interest to a deep-pocketed few. I think if I were a serious VIII Recce collector I would have gone after this (maybe not as far as $455...). It is an interesting oddity.

I think I agree with David, that this is a hand tooled badge (from the marks on the back), "vet's labour of love". It is too bad that the real origin/provenance of this badge is not known.