Royal Scots Fusiliers Bronze Badge

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

With all due respect, I think the badges shown in your last post show rather more excessive polishing than poor quality. I have a suspicion that an orficer bloke's batman would proceed with polishing and shining any and every article of dress, whether it was required or not, with perhaps some undesired results.

CB

Then the officer would be very annoyed with him, as officers badges were not intended for polishing and I’m sure that in most cases he would have been put right on the matter.

[RichardP]

Nice long and interesting thread on this one badge. A little forensic examination on my item via a pair of pliers and some light brushing revealed that the front has been bronzed by some method. It is not tarnished as speculated as I tried some solvents to no avail. I have never come across another badge that has only the front bronzed but not the back. I might later contact the Regiment museum to see if the can throw some light on it.
Thanks again Gents for your input.
Richard

[Paul Spellman]

A Particularly Fine Museum with a Rennie Macintosh vibe
They have one of the best displays of Insignia of any Regtl Museum including Volunteer and Territorial
Unlike the other Scottish Regimental Museums it is Free (Donations accepted)
There is no Castle or Fort entrance fee and is open all year.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

A Particularly Fine Museum with a Rennie Macintosh vibe
They have one of the best displays of Insignia of any Regtl Museum including Volunteer and Territorial
Unlike the other Scottish Regimental Museums it is Free (Donations accepted)
There is no Castle or Fort entrance fee and is open all year.

Website :

http://www.rhf.org.uk/

.

[Paul Spellman]

During a fairly recent visit I didn’t see any evidence of a bronzed badge of the type shown in the OP
However, in one of the displays there was a much smaller unusual badge described as an Officers Forage Cap badge c.1930, no6 in the photo which appeared to be bronze and cast in 1 piece
Unfortunately there was no curators present to ask any questions or indeed to handle/inspect the item.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

During a fairly recent visit I didn’t see any evidence of a bronzed badge of the type shown in the OP
However, in one of the displays there was a much smaller unusual badge described as an Officers Forage Cap badge c.1930, no6 in the photo which appeared to be bronze and cast in 1 piece
Unfortunately there was no curators present to ask any questions or indeed to handle/inspect the item.

If it’s for a forage cap and in bronze then I think it’s likely to be an Adjutant’s badge and worn with service dress jacket and trews. It’s interesting that the flames are of the same pattern as the Royal Fusiliers (City of London), a brother regiment.

[Paul Spellman]

I picked this up Sunday and thought of this thread, a nice RSF pagri badge which has a deep patina which could be mistaken for bronzing but in hand it is a fine old badge with age
Paul

[cbuehler]

A good old badge, but again, no evidence (that I am yet aware of) to show them in use as a Pagri badge. I am aware that virtually all badges with these long sliders are relegated to "Pagri" by default, but they can most certainly be used on other forms of head dress such as the Glengarry in this case.

CB

[Alan O]

The use of the long sliders was authorised for wear on the Foreign Service Helmet in the early 1900's.

The badges were authorised for wear on the Glengarry were lugged so I think it is correct to describe the badges with the long sliders as FSH or pagri badges.

The 2 types may have been worn differently but the intended use was for 2 different types of headgear.
Alan

[Alex Rice]

I think if that RSF badge had been worn on a GG, the end of the slider would have stuck out from below the edge of the GG.
Cheers,
Alex

[Alan O]

Alex

You are exactly right which is why it was specified for the FSH. In the event these were made but like the HPC conversions do not seem to have been worn.

Alan

[cbuehler]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

I think if that RSF badge had been worn on a GG, the end of the slider would have stuck out from below the edge of the GG.
Cheers,
Alex

Which may explain why one sees some of these types with clipped sliders.
I do understand that the intention may have been for the FSH, but as Alan mentioned, as with the HPC badges, there is no evidence as yet that they were ever worn as such.

CB

[Alan O]

The clipped sliders suggest that they were reused either in the Slouch hat or quite likely dug out of stores and issued in 1915 due to the cap badge shortage.

[Toby Purcell]

The regiment generally had one of its two regular battalions serving on the home establishment and the other battalion on overseas service, often but not exclusively in India. The battalion at home wore a fur cap and grenade insignia in ceremonial, but headdress for the same, ‘review order’ overseas was the foreign service helmet (FSH).

After the 2nd Anglo/Boer War, when the Wolseley helmet became universal for all ranks (it was already being purchased by officers), a white horse hair plume was worn on the right side by other ranks and a cut feather hackle by officers. However, for the previous pattern of helmet a grenade was worn throughout the 1880s-90s for those occasions when in review dress, but as the decades passed increasingly less so when in the field, where the scarlet and white shoulder title cut from frocks was preferred.

Nevertheless, the enclosed colour image was inspired by a photograph in the regimental museum. Ergo the white plume gradually became a more practical and popular alternative to the badge, leading no doubt to the surplus in store, but there is no doubt that the 2nd Battalion had worn the grenade on the FSH for a period of time, as did the 1st Battalion in India in 1896.

2nd Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers (previous to July 1881 the 2/21st Regiment).

1878 Ireland
1879.03.31 Natal: Durban
1879.06.01 Zulu war
1879.07 Sekukuni war
1879 Natal
1881 South Africa
1881.10 Natal
1882.01 at sea (embarked at Durban)
1883 India: Madras
1885 Burma
1886 India: Dagshai
1888 Hazara expedition
1888 India
1890 Cherat
1893 Sialkot
1897.10 Tirah
1897 England: Chatham

NB. From 1881 to 1896 the 1st Battalion was on the Home Establishment, initially in Britain and then in Ireland. The enclosed black and white photo of a group of officers shows the 1st Battalion at mess after arrival in India.