King's Own Scottish Borderers Officer

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

I’d be very interested to see the smaller badge worn.
Yes they did have an FSC as did the HLI too
Paul

I’ve not seen any images of a smaller badge and unfortunately the photos of that form of dress are rare, as mentioned previously in the thread, so I’d love to see one too. So far all the evidence suggests a glengarry cap badge worn. I knew about and have seen the FSC worn by HLI, but never yet by RSF, though I do not doubt you. Do you have any images? What were the circumstances for its wear given presumably the coexistence of the glengarry and the forage cap?

[Alex Rice]

Thanks Hiram.

Originally Posted by Borderer

Hi Toby,

Once again, Great Photograph of the Forage cap and Frock coat being worn by a Lowland Regimental officer as per dress regulation for Lowland Regiment Officers 1904. A rare photo of the period showing the RSF officer in the roll as an ADC in this form of dress.

Alex, there is no question about the full size cap badge being worn by the Lowland Regimental Officers in this form of dress as the Dress regulation stipulates that Collar Badges, Buttons on the Frock Coat and the Cap Badges are the same worn on the other forms of service dress.
There is no pattern small badge mentioned or illustrated in the 1904 and subsequent Officers Dress regulation for this headdress or any other service dress.
I would suspect that as officers purchase there official pattern uniforms and accoutrements from approved regimental tailors, there are, certainly in the KOSB, smaller pattern cap badges available, normally found on regimental trophies etc, That said, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility for an officers to wear one of these small badges on the forage cap, if his normal cap badge was a large Victorian Crown Pattern badge, and get away with it. Because, if the practice then was anything like when I served young officers used to share a pool of uniform items that were only ever worn on rare occasions, for example the Duty Officer could and did wear undress uniform for staff parade at 2200hrs, this was a Blue Patrol Jacket and these were shared within their mess, WO & Sgt's Mess members did the very same with BPJ.

Cheers
Hiram

[Alex Rice]

Hi Paul
As mentioned, I meant the glengarry badge. There was an image of a smaller RSF officer badge with a Royal Fusilier shaped grenade on a different thread which raised the question of whether that was used on the peaked cap.
Cheers,
Alex

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

I’m not sure what is meant by a full size badge on the RSF cap
Which badge is being referred too
Paul
Fur Cap, Glengarry or ToS or for the cap shown

[Paul Spellman]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

I’ve not seen any images of a smaller badge and unfortunately the photos of that form of dress are rare, as mentioned previously in the thread, so I’d love to see one too. So far all the evidence suggests a glengarry cap badge worn. I knew about and have seen the FSC worn by HLI, but never yet by RSF, though I do not doubt you. Do you have any images? What were the circumstances for its wear given presumably the coexistence of the glengarry and the forage cap?

Not the best photo due to the glass, I lost others due to flashback unfortunately
This appears to be a Vol/TF example
I would only guess worn when in an administrative roll in barrack dress (trews) jumper or shirt order
Paul

[CAM]

An interesting thread. Thanks all.

Chris

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

Not the best photo due to the glass, I lost others due to flashback unfortunately
This appears to be a Vol/TF example
I would only guess worn when in an administrative roll in barrack dress (trews) jumper or shirt order
Paul

Thanks Paul, I rather anticipated it might be a Torin cap and so it has proved to be. The Torin style field cap predated the Austrian type and was fashionable for roughly a decade between the early 1880s and 1894. It might well not have been worn by the RSFs regular battalions given the pointedly Scots dress# imposed upon them from July 1881**.

The Torin was basically an alternative for infantry officers to the glengarry during the latter years of the period when the glengarry was universal for the infantry. It’s an interesting cap that I’ve observed in photographs over many decades now and I’ve never yet found a comprehensive list of those regiments and battalions that favoured it, although it’s occasionally mentioned in bulletins of the British Military Historical Society and similar membership groups. Its adoption seems to have been a decision made at regimental level and only some regiments favoured it. Unlike the glengarry some cavalry regiments wore it too.

I once wrote formally to the National Army Museum asking if they could throw any light on how the style earned the sobriquet ‘Torin’ and to my amusement was referred back to myself via the pseudonym that I was using in the now defunct Victorian Wars Forum. I have never been able to unearth a satisfactory explanation regarding the name. My understanding is that just one infantry regiment still wears a Torin and that the sole remaining cavalry regiment that did so switched in recent decades to the Austrian type.

#This was a substantial overturning of a very longstanding practice that all fusilier regiments dressed similarly, with just insignia and plumes/hackles identifying them individually in a relatively subtle manner. It placed the RSF in visual respects out of the club with its starkly different doublet and trews. Purists claimed the result to be akin to a dog’s breakfast.

**Volunteer Battalions were not obliged to follow the dress practices of their regular parents until around 1888 and even then not all of them accepted doing so.

NB. As I anticipated the insignia on the Torin is a collar badge.