A Badge Collector and His Money Are Easily Parted! - Page 2 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Advsmt · #16 22-10-16, 03:32 PM

Ah well I deep down expected the worst. I think as Alan said I need to move onto another area, I don't really want to spend serious money on badges that are fakes and I suspect the "real" ones will be just too expensive or unobtainable.

Thanks for your opinion I appreciate your time and expertise.

Bryan

manchesters · #17 22-10-16, 03:36 PM

Bryan,

The genuine pre-1881 Glengarry badges are not hard to find and usually under £100 each which for a rare badge these days is quite cheap.

regards

Roy · #18 22-10-16, 03:40 PM

Hi Bryan,

Like many I'm sure, I feel your frustration and disappointment. However may I make a small suggestion that would possibly get you 'original' insignia to the early units you desire but perhaps not at a huge investment - 'buttons'..!

Not perhaps of interest to you and possibly not as dramatic to display as badges, but if you're looking for original insignia at a much more affordable price and with few fakes out there, it may be worth a thought.

Here is a link to my modest collection of Militia buttons so you can see the sort of think I'm talking about.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=2773

Cheerio,

Roy

Advsmt · #19 22-10-16, 06:53 PM

Hi Roy I do have a few buttons and they are quite exquisite wee beauties. But I' m afraid it is really family connection badges and other regiment artefacts that I want. So I will have to put the disappoints of these badges behind me and be more discerning and rely on the expertise of others. I hear what you say Manchesters, it is the 72nd, 78th, 92nd, 42nd plus the Rifle Volunteers that I am after but can I get those for under £100?

Man up as they say and ask for help.

Bryan

manchesters · #20 22-10-16, 09:39 PM

Bryan,

Alas if you are only collecting Scottish badges you will have to pay more.
These and the Irish badges always bring more.

However most or all of those are readily available on respected websites in the UK and will probably feature at Bosleys next auction.

regards

Advsmt · #21 24-10-16, 09:09 PM

Right, Bosley's latest sale, Lot 112, 93rd Glengarry badge. I can see the definition on the crown and thistle leaves is far superior to my badge. But can I be sure this is original or an old restrike? How can I tell?

Any advice please.

Bryan

manchesters · #22 24-10-16, 09:16 PM

Bryan,

You can bid with confidence at Bosleys.

regards

Frank Kelley · #23 25-10-16, 07:13 AM

I think you will actually find it would be quite difficult to get those for under £100 these days.
I certainly would not put a particular limit, especially a rather low one, as far as price goes just yet, or I suspect you will be looking for a long time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advsmt

Hi Roy I do have a few buttons and they are quite exquisite wee beauties. But I' m afraid it is really family connection badges and other regiment artefacts that I want. So I will have to put the disappoints of these badges behind me and be more discerning and rely on the expertise of others. I hear what you say Manchesters, it is the 72nd, 78th, 92nd, 42nd plus the Rifle Volunteers that I am after but can I get those for under £100?

Man up as they say and ask for help.

Bryan

Unknownsoldier · #24 25-10-16, 07:30 AM

They look like the ones I got offered 10 years ago... from a mail order source if I remember correctly.

Peter Brydon · #25 25-10-16, 09:49 AM

Not strictly relevant but here is a little tale-

Well over 20 years ago an acquaintance who collected badges did a little bit of wheeling and dealing and around the same time a well known collector/author/dealer used to produce a list of badges for sale, not all or which were genuine, his list however did give the impression that he only sold genuine badges.

My acquaintance used to offer me badges that he was selling and one day he asked me if I was interested in some Scottish volunteer badges he was selling on behalf of a friend of his, I arranged to go and see them and when I did it was obvious ( at least to me ) that they were all fakes.

I didn't want to insult the man so I said I wasn't sure about the badges which had been extensively copied.Oh no was the reply the badges had all been sent to ---- ------ for his opinion and he had said they were all fine.

I couldn't understand how such a well known collector could not have recognised these badges as duds then the penny dropped, ---- ------ had quite possibly sold the badges as genuine items in the first place and couldn't then turn round and say they were all duds.

At least today we have the internet and the Forum to do some research before parting with our hard earned cash.

P.B.

Advsmt · #26 02-11-16, 04:17 PM

Well, I bid on a 93rd glengarry at Bosley's auction. Bid more than twice the high estimate - still not nearly enough. I guess it did not help that it stated this was the badge in K&K!

Bryan

Advsmt · #27 04-11-16, 10:03 AM

As a postscript to my Scottish family badge collecting saga, on the "Bosley's" thread I see that I lost out to a dealer, Malcolm. I had my son and 5 year old grandson round yesterday and when they arrived I had my badges out. Being polite they faind some interest in "grandad's obsession". I pointed out that I bid almost £400 for an almost identical badge to the two on the table, they both open mouthed looked at me in a new incredulous light. I said one of the two was a £15 fake, the other a £180 fake and because a dealer had bought the one I was after I would need to pay about £600+ if I still wanted it. My son said, "Are you absolutely mad, when the badges are on the wall no one will know or care. They are not the actual badges the person wore so who cares". My grandson said, "Granddad you could get hundreds of real Thomas the Tank Engine trains for that money". Sometimes you just need to put things in perspective. Do I really want that badge? Malcolm has to make a living so he bid what he thinks a "collector" is willing pay. Am I that collector, that is the question? Apparently not if I don't want my grandson and son to commit me.

Peter Brydon · #28 04-11-16, 11:03 AM

I think younger generations have neither the same interests nor disposable incomes of older generations so what will be the eventual result ?

P.B.

Advsmt · #29 04-11-16, 01:01 PM

I think Peter than you have to take the long term view and it will be positive escepcially for the collector/person with a deep historica/family interest. By way of illustration I can share my previous interest which mystified my family even more and brought plenty of ridicule from my wife. I collected the signatures to German WW2 Knights Cross winners. I met some in my military days and they gave me signed photos of themselves in uniform which seemed a bit odd. Reading up on their personal histories and deeds I became hooked. One thing led to another and by the early 1980s I have written to well over 1000. They even gave me signatures of war killed comrades. By the mid 80s signatures started to appear on eBay and "dealers" started to appear. Sure enough forgers appeared on the scene selling on eBay and through dealers. My 2000 signature collection went from a value of a few pounds to about £50000 in the space of a few years. But forums started to appear, much like this, collectors became more experienced and cautious and forgers more outrageous in there wares and descriptions. Sure enough forum members started to get threatened with legal action over the "outing" of forgers. I returned stuff, and it was rejected and returned to me. I was publically vilified and named as a trouble maker and unreliable payer. Confidence in the subject matter crashed overnight. Dealers went out of business, nothing sold and my collection is back to where I started in terms of monetary value. Do I care? Not really because I had the academic interest and it was a hobby. I met lots of interesting people and have a huge archive of letters. But it is all in boxes in the loft, I will not sell because I don't believe the subject matter is appropriate to deal in - my personal opinion. But the books on the people are comprehensive, much more than on allied personnel and leaving aside the rights and wrongs it is interesting. So in the end the knowledgable collector is still out there but now getting things at a "realistic" price not an inflated "joe public passing interest price". And the forgers have moved on, there is no profit to be made albeit the market is still awash with the existing rubbish. But they are now a known quantity thanks to forums with "knowledgable, opened minded, and caring enthusiasts". As to badges, I know my son and grandson will look at their ancestors badges eventually when the "time is right" for them. When the pressures of family and more important things ease. They just need to know exactly what I am leaving them and what they mean to the family. One of them might even like those shiny interesting badges and start collecting because the seed was planted. The German stuff will never interest them, they never met the men face to face. As far as I am concerned they can bin it; but they will not bin the badges. How many old soldiers threw away their badges? My uncles hated their post war national service, but they kept their badges. Those badges and the people that wore them are in our DNA.

Bryan