Cast / Theatre-made Badges

[Jelly Terror]

I sometimes wonder about cast/theatre-made badges, in that whilst many are clearly taken from impressions of 'known' badges, others (such as the example pictured below) do not appear to have a specific 'parent' badge in the world beyond cast/theatre-made manufacture.

The pattern variation shown here falls beyond the parameters of the established/recorded QRWS variants that I am familiar with. I have been unable to find a matching example in the factory-produced realm that might have served as the original for this lamb.

Did Indian/Egyptian etc., badge makers generally exercise liberal amounts of artistic licence when casting; merging and mingling and making mongrels, the origins of which sometimes seem too dilute to trace?

I am wondering if members who collect the badges of other units have noticed such anomalies within their chosen areas of specialisation?

Regards,

JT

O7a.jpgO7b.jpg

[Home Guard]

JT, I cannot shed any light on the subject, but what strikes me about your badge is that it seems very nicely made and not the usual crude made theater badge.

I look forward to seeing what others have to say.

Terry

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Home Guard

JT, I cannot shed any light on the subject, but what strikes me about your badge is that it seems very nicely made and not the usual crude made theater badge.

I look forward to seeing what others have to say.

Terry

Thanks Terry.

I do have one other example of this pattern (for want of a better term), though it is much cruder. It is the only other one I have ever encountered. Will post in due course.

Regards,

JT

[dumdum]

True or not, I was told that these theatre cast made examples were produced to make up shortages in lost badges. Also believe that anyone who "lost" (i.e. swapped/ sold/ bartered) a badge could obtain one of these and avoid paying a kit deficiency.

Having said that, I have somewhere a copy of a catalogue from the 1970's from the firm of Azam Katak (?) & Co of Lahore, Pakistan that lists pages of badges available. I recall that there is a note to the effect that the catalogue should be placed prominently in the regimental mess.

They could also make any badge to order....

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by dumdum

True or not, I was told that these theatre cast made examples were produced to make up shortages in lost badges. Also believe that anyone who "lost" (i.e. swapped/ sold/ bartered) a badge could obtain one of these and avoid paying a kit deficiency.

Having said that, I have somewhere a copy of a catalogue from the 1970's from the firm of Azam Katak (?) & Co of Lahore, Pakistan that lists pages of badges available. I recall that there is a note to the effect that the catalogue should be placed prominently in the regimental mess.

They could also make any badge to order....

Thanks, DD.

If you manage to find the catalogue, perhaps you’d be kind enough to post it on the forum? I’d love to have look.

Regards,

JT

[Nozzer]

Morning Terror,

Have a look here;

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...p?albumid=4318

[dumdum]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Thanks, DD.

If you manage to find the catalogue, perhaps you’d be kind enough to post it on the forum? I’d love to have look.

Regards,

JT

Hi JT

Of course! It "surfaced" some time ago and then went into hiding again. I'm not a badge collector per se but I thought it was "a bit of a larf" as Father Ted would say.

Mostly British badges but also some Commonwealth stuff and a lot were the type of stuff that you would think would be so common it wouldn't be worth doing....

[cbuehler]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

I sometimes wonder about cast/theatre-made badges, in that whilst many are clearly taken from impressions of 'known' badges, others (such as the example pictured below) do not appear to have a specific 'parent' badge in the world beyond cast/theatre-made manufacture.

The pattern variation shown here falls beyond the parameters of the established/recorded QRWS variants that I am familiar with. I have been unable to find a matching example in the factory-produced realm that might have served as the original for this lamb.

Did Indian/Egyptian etc., badge makers generally exercise liberal amounts of artistic licence when casting; merging and mingling and making mongrels, the origins of which sometimes seem too dilute to trace?

I am wondering if members who collect the badges of other units have noticed such anomalies within their chosen areas of specialisation?

Regards,

JT

Attachment 279193Attachment 279194

The reason this does not have a "parent" badge is because it is a British made officer's badge, not theatre or Indian made at all.
The quality may not be the greatest I have seen, but it is still a nice silver and gilt badge. Officers badges were all privately purchased from many makers, both large and small, including local jewellers.
As such, they have nothing to do with OR sealed pattern badges and reflect the makers variations and quality.

CB

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

The reason this does not have a "parent" badge is because it is a British made officer's badge, not theatre or Indian made at all.
The quality may not be the greatest I have seen, but it is still a nice silver and gilt badge. Officers badges were all privately purchased from many makers, both large and small, including local jewellers.
As such, they have nothing to do with OR sealed pattern badges and reflect the makers variations and quality.

CB

Excellent stuff CB! Would you be able to provide the source of this info, please? This is exactly what I’m looking for.

Cheers,

JT

[cbuehler]

The source of this information is myself, collected over the decades with the combined wisdom and knowledge of this forum.
Officer badges are a law unto themselves. While they must of course conform to the described pattern or badge submitted, small details of style and construction are up to the maker.

CB

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

The source of this information is myself, collected over the decades with the combined wisdom and knowledge of this forum.
Officer badges are a law unto themselves. While they must of course conform to the described pattern or badge submitted, small details of style and construction are up to the maker.

CB

Got it (thumbs up)

Cheers,

JT

[Fatherofthree]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

The source of this information is myself, collected over the decades with the combined wisdom and knowledge of this forum.
Officer badges are a law unto themselves. While they must of course conform to the described pattern or badge submitted, small details of style and construction are up to the maker.

CB

Greetings CB.
I have to disagree with you.
I have seen and held the item that Jelly Terror is asking about and have to say that it is a theatre made badge, albeit of some quality.

Perhaps the pictures he posted appear to show said item in a better light than when seen in reality.

This Nursey Rhyme in relation to Lambs, springs to mind.

Mary, Mary, it's quite contrary,
Is it good or is it fraud.
In silver and gilt and with metal pins.
No, it's a badge that was made abroad.

Regards.
Brian

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Fatherofthree

Greetings CB.
I have to disagree with you.
I have seen and held the item that Jelly Terror is asking about and have to say that it is a theatre made badge, albeit of some quality.

Perhaps the pictures he posted appear to show said item in a better light than when seen in reality.

This Nursey Rhyme in relation to Lambs, springs to mind.

Mary, Mary, it's quite contrary,
Is it good or is it fraud.
In silver and gilt and with metal pins.
No, it's a badge that was made abroad.

Regards.
Brian

A poet too?! Blimey Brian, you’re wasted, mate. And I don’t mean on Guinness

Cheers,

JT

[Frank Kelley]

From the photographs, I would say that it is an officers badge for the forage cap, looks really good.

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

I sometimes wonder about cast/theatre-made badges, in that whilst many are clearly taken from impressions of 'known' badges, others (such as the example pictured below) do not appear to have a specific 'parent' badge in the world beyond cast/theatre-made manufacture.

The pattern variation shown here falls beyond the parameters of the established/recorded QRWS variants that I am familiar with. I have been unable to find a matching example in the factory-produced realm that might have served as the original for this lamb.

Did Indian/Egyptian etc., badge makers generally exercise liberal amounts of artistic licence when casting; merging and mingling and making mongrels, the origins of which sometimes seem too dilute to trace?

I am wondering if members who collect the badges of other units have noticed such anomalies within their chosen areas of specialisation?

Regards,

JT

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[Frank Kelley]

Particularly like the two rivets!

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

I sometimes wonder about cast/theatre-made badges, in that whilst many are clearly taken from impressions of 'known' badges, others (such as the example pictured below) do not appear to have a specific 'parent' badge in the world beyond cast/theatre-made manufacture.

The pattern variation shown here falls beyond the parameters of the established/recorded QRWS variants that I am familiar with. I have been unable to find a matching example in the factory-produced realm that might have served as the original for this lamb.

Did Indian/Egyptian etc., badge makers generally exercise liberal amounts of artistic licence when casting; merging and mingling and making mongrels, the origins of which sometimes seem too dilute to trace?

I am wondering if members who collect the badges of other units have noticed such anomalies within their chosen areas of specialisation?

Regards,

JT

Attachment 279193Attachment 279194