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  #1  
Old 07-02-19, 11:35 AM
Neibelungen Neibelungen is offline
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Default Royal Marine Belt Plate

Sold last summer, but not the first time I've had this chap sell stuff I made with a fake provenance and description.

I definately must have underpriced it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGIAN-...p2047675.l2557

http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk/p...php?prod=AM021

You can even see the traces of my makers name at the back between the two hooks.
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  #2  
Old 07-02-19, 01:37 PM
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bewley bewley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neibelungen View Post
Sold last summer, but not the first time I've had this chap sell stuff I made with a fake provenance and description.

I definately must have underpriced it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGIAN-...p2047675.l2557

http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk/p...php?prod=AM021

You can even see the traces of my makers name at the back between the two hooks.
Excuse me if i appear thick, but are you saying that you produce modern equivalents of historic badges, then this chap buys them ‘ages’ them then sells them on?
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  #3  
Old 07-02-19, 01:57 PM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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A "modern equivalent" interesting term, I think fake would be the word I would use!


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Originally Posted by bewley View Post
Excuse me if i appear thick, but are you saying that you produce modern equivalents of historic badges, then this chap buys them ‘ages’ them then sells them on?
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  #4  
Old 07-02-19, 02:14 PM
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Paul Spellman Paul Spellman is offline
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Unbelievable!!
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  #5  
Old 07-02-19, 02:53 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
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So, the forum doesn't just have members who deal in duff stuff, it also has a member who makes the duff stuff. You couldn't make it up.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-19, 03:55 PM
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magpie magpie is offline
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At least he's come forward and told you, like lots of other repro badges and equipment it only becomes bad when someone else passes it off as original.
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  #7  
Old 07-02-19, 04:13 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neibelungen View Post
Sold last summer, but not the first time I've had this chap sell stuff I made with a fake provenance and description.

I definately must have underpriced it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGIAN-...p2047675.l2557

http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk/p...php?prod=AM021

You can even see the traces of my makers name at the back between the two hooks.
You've known about it for quite a while then it seems.
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  #8  
Old 07-02-19, 04:21 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie View Post
At least he's come forward and told you, like lots of other repro badges and equipment it only becomes bad when someone else passes it off as original.
It's happening all the time and as long as someone is making these copies/reproductions/modern replicas or whatever it will continue.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-19, 04:37 PM
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manchesters manchesters is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
It's happening all the time and as long as someone is making these copies/reproductions/modern replicas or whatever it will continue.
I agree.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-19, 05:26 PM
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magpie magpie is offline
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I agree as well but he's not doing anything wrong, cap badges have been reproduced whole sale for over 50 years now along with everything else from car parts to dinning room tables, if it's reproduction/fake then it should be marked as such, im not a fan of any reproduction crap whatever it is.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-19, 05:29 PM
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grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
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Both images of the SBP are sh*te IMO.
Andy
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  #12  
Old 07-02-19, 05:58 PM
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btns btns is offline
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It is not illegal to make and sell reproductions.
It is not legal to offer it for sale as an original.
E-bay does not care.

The manufacturer put a maker's mark on it.
If that maker's mark is properly registered then the manufacturer can apply for e-bay's Vero registration. If the seller messed with the trademark the object can be vero-ed.
E-bay is very sensitive to items being vero-ed and it will remove it.
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  #13  
Old 07-02-19, 06:08 PM
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Phil2M Phil2M is offline
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What is the maker mark on the plate, please?
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  #14  
Old 07-02-19, 06:47 PM
Neibelungen Neibelungen is offline
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I should explain a bit clearer.

These were first made in the late 1990's for ITV's Hornblower series to a request from John Mollo for the shipboard marines. A few were also used in Master and Commander as well as buttons and badges for the cartridge boxes.
The plate is based off a design recovered in from a shipwreck off the Isle of Man around 1823, though the lettering is mounted on a scroll rather than flat on the actual original.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryofthewo...R0-SQfqbZk3mDg

I do a lot of reproduction work for film and TV as well as re-enactment and as much as possible, try to mark the rear with my company name and the year of manufacture. In this case it was engraved between the top hooks.

Over the years I sold a lot to re-enactment groups and individuals as reproductions but occasionally they get bought by somebody who will age them up and try pass them off as an original.

Quite often these things end up getting shipped of to India and mass produced out there, particularly belt plates, such as those used for the Charge of the Light brigade film.

My point of the post was to highlight an ebay seller who passes items off as originals and bring to the attention of collectors an item that is in no way original.
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  #15  
Old 07-02-19, 07:23 PM
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Hi Phil. and all,

Niebilungen has in the past put a thread on his manufacture of Helmet Plates for the Napoleonic War Re-enactors from the metals used through the manufacture process, a very interesting thread and he hit upon the fact that these where making there way to Ebay as Genuine items, the Thread was possibly 2 years ago "Ish" so He is Not making them to sell as Genuine items - rather for enthusiasts to Re-enact Waterloo, and possibly Film company's am sure he is reading this Thread and will pop in again but he isn't at fault here and someone more knowledgeable than I may help by digging out the link to it! At the time it was really well followed! I certainly enjoyed it as a Metalworker and he doesn't need being made responsible for other peoples greed! He brought us the knowledge that an item for sale and a Forum member was seeking advice on as he was about to buy it I think? he came forward and this then started the said thread, needless to say the Forum member held of buying an expensive mistake! All the best Billy
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