'unofficial' / 'alternative' officer's cap badges - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

KLR · #1 30-12-16, 09:18 AM

The official patterns for ORs' cap badges are laid down, and usually illustrated, in the RACD ledgers and the original Sealing Pattern cards are either at IWM or NAM.
The patterns for officers' badges are not quite as easy but from the 1900 DR onwards they are illustrated and the regiment kept a card with authorised badges - many survive at NAM.

It is clear that certain manufacturers made 'alternative' badges to the official patterns for this 'private purchase' market - though I suspect that they must have been approved by the regimental dress committee.

So far, I know of 'alternative' badges for the KLR (from at least 1910) and the Manchester Regt (info courtesy of Simon B).
For my KLR research I would be very grateful to learn of any other comparable "variations" for other regiments. I believe these things were probably produced from c 1900 until after the 1st WW.

It would be particularly useful to know which makers are involved.

many thanks
J

badger123 · #2 30-12-16, 09:43 AM

Interesting question Julian.

Can I probe a little further and ask how you define 'alternative' and perhaps give an example?

I'm presuming you mean substantially different from the official patterns rather than minor variations made by different makers?

Regards, Ivan

KLR · #3 30-12-16, 03:29 PM

Yes Ivan, something that substantially differs from the WO prescribed Pattern.
An example would be the OSD star badge of the Manchester Regt.

"Variations" of BM badges were merely by different makers - they wouldn't earn any more from the WO procurements dept but 'alternative' officer's badges might well be popular.

manchesters · #4 30-12-16, 03:53 PM

Ivan,

These are the Brunswick Star badges that Julian mentioned, worn on FS Cap, Forage Cap, Pagri & Collars by Officers.

The larger ones are further examples of the Brunswick Star not worn on headdress.

Quite different from the official Manchester City coat of Arms style badge.

regards

Keith Blakeman · #5 30-12-16, 04:08 PM

The Hampshire and Lincolnshire regiments spring to mind.

oc14 · #6 30-12-16, 04:17 PM

KRRC and Royal Berkshire Regiment officers also wore different pattern to those worn by ORs
PL

jf42 · #7 31-12-16, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchesters

Ivan,

These are the Brunswick Star badges that Julian mentioned, worn on FS Cap, Forage Cap, Pagri & Collars by Officers.

The larger ones are further examples of the Brunswick Star not worn on headdress.

Quite different from the official Manchester City coat of Arms style badge.

regards

This is intriguing. How did use of the Brunswick badge compare with that of the Fleur-de-lys badge.

I am understand that some regiments displayed the 'Egypt' distinction more to the fore (or rear) than others, but taking this Brunswick Star badge into consideration, I am curious as to why the Sphinx did not feature more prominently in official Manchester Regiment insignia from 1881.

manchesters · #8 31-12-16, 11:53 AM

I did feature a lot.

OR collars; Officers Frock Coat collars; Officers mess dress collars; the WBC; The Forage Cap badge; the pagri badge and more.

It was only the Glengarry, Helmet Plates and then the cap badge that featured the Manchester City Coat of Arms.

regards

KLR · #9 31-12-16, 01:09 PM

Thank you Keith and Paul,

and thank you Simon for clarifying the Manch star badgers.

What I'm getting at is the use of unofficial officer's badges - that is, not in DR.
I think that the KRRC officer's badge was a cord boss badge which was official - ie the difference between officers and ORs was recognised.
I don't know about Hampshire, Lincolnshire and Berkshire and would like to know if any of these were 'unofficial'. Basically I'm trying to find comparanda for the KLR and Manch examples.
Jennens were making such badges for the officer market.

fougasse1940 · #10 31-12-16, 03:35 PM

Not sure if this is what you're after, but Ludlow made RA and RE OR's collar sized gilt grenades with silver scrolls for wear on the coloured field service cap, also worn during the second world war on the general service cap and beret.
There are various unofficial corps badges like that.

Rgds, Thomas.

tonyb · #11 31-12-16, 06:32 PM

Hello Julian, there is a small size Essex Regiment OSD cap badge.
Tony.

John Mulcahy · #12 31-12-16, 08:45 PM

Julian,

The Royal Munster Fusiliers provides an example of this practice. Although not quite as extreme as the Manchester Regiment "Brunswick Star" example.

On the phasing out of the “straight-up” forage cap and (the embroidered badge specified for it), the officers version of the O/R badge pattern 4642/1898 is the pattern approved in the dress regulations for all officers headdress with the exception of full dress.

That badge is shown on the left below (A Gaunt marked badge, loops gone and broach fitting now, which may be a reproduction).

This design is the well-known “full size” badge described in regulations as “On the ball, in silver, the Tiger and scroll inscribed ‘Royal Munster”. It was also the badge approved for service dress from 1902 …”On the service dress cap, in bronze, “as for the forage cap”. (example second & third from from left - both of which I am happy are genuine and note the third from left having what looks like the same flame spread as the Gaunt silver & gilt example).

By 1914 The Munsters had largely abandoned wearing the full size badge in forage caps and in OSD caps in favour of a smaller silver and gilt design similar to the vertical undress collar badge. (shown fourth from left).

I have found no official approval for the wearing of the smaller badge nor have I found any regimental documentation for this change other than the IWM questionnaire returns which confirms, from the regiment, the wearing of this smaller design.

The larger original 1902 OSD bronzed badge can still be seen in use by a minority of officers during the Great War especially by some of those of the 7th & 8th (Service) Bns. as well as officers of the 3rd, 4th & 5th (Reserve and Extra Reserve) Bns. who were attached to the 2nd Bn. in France in 1914. I assume that this is reflection of officers using what badges were to be had rather than any sort of practice for designating battalion identity given that photographs show it was not universal practice.

With regard to the FSH, all the material I have access to show that by c. 1906 the regiment (1 Bn in India, Burma) were not following the instructions in Dress regulations and were wearing the Pagri Badge shown below on the right).

With the exception of the Royal Irish Fusiliers, I do not see the other Irish line infantry regiments practicing the habit of wearing alternative forage, FSC or service cap designs to those specified in regulations (FSH excepted).

Happy New Year to all.

John

regarding the Royal Irish Fusiliers;

The Dress Regulations state that it was the second badge in bronze that was to be worn, i.e. no coronet.

The regimental 1906 dated sealed pattern cards for officers confirm this . However as far as I can recall most (if not all) of the great war images I have seen shows the 2 piece silver and gilt badge in wear in OSD rather than the second badge (grenade with central device) in bronze as prescribed.

Curiously the regiment's 1937 dated officers sealed pattern cards still show the bronzed second badge only as the SD Cap and collar badge (just as prescribed in the 1904 & 1911 DRs)

(Thank you John Cooper for kindly providing his photos of these RIF Officers sealed pattern cards)

John Mulcahy · #13 31-12-16, 09:02 PM

I should have added that the smaller badges were not 'just" re-purposed collar badges.

The Jennens marked sample in my collection has clearly been purposefully made to fit caps, it has long loops and not the shorter vertical positioned loops for use on collars.

I dare say that some collar badges may well have been pressed into service on caps in any case.

John