Queens Badge - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Alan O · #1 16-12-07, 07:14 PM

Can anyone identify this badge for me? It is BB (blackened no painted) but the scroll is overlaid and the back is unstamped. Is it the TA Bn?

Alan

Keith Blakeman · #2 16-12-07, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Can anyone identify this badge for me? It is BB (blackened no painted) but the scroll is overlaid and the back is unstamped. Is it the TA Bn?

Alan

It was the 5th who wore the BB version following on from their existence as the 2nd VB who also wore similar. This badge has to be looked at with an open opinion.....why no sweatholes even if a regulars badge has been blackened? It would be more convincing if an economy had been treated the same. Who knows, if your opinon that is that all WW1 badges should have sweatholes fine, put it down to wartime cost savings, if not who knows? For myself I'd prefer a one piece one which I have but even then there the cynical view it may be an blackened economy..

Alan O · #3 16-12-07, 07:54 PM

keith,

It can't be a blackened economy as they were all one piece and it is certainly not a blackened regular badge as it is all brass and no w/m. It it was painted and not blackened then I would be more suspicious about it.

Alan

Keith Blakeman · #4 16-12-07, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

keith,

It can't be a blackened economy as they were all one piece and it is certainly not a blackened regular badge as it is all brass and no w/m. It it was painted and not blackened then I would be more suspicious about it.

Alan

So the overlay is brass on brass? I once had a 4th DG like that even with sweatholes which was given the thumbs down by everyone.

Alan O · #5 17-12-07, 08:49 AM

One possibility I had considered was that the main part of the badge was also used for the various OTC badges who also used the Queens badge (K&K show several). I am led to believe that the TF badges were not initially provided from the WD but bought privately and were often made by small suppliers. This could explain the unusual manufacture.

The difficulty for a faker to produce this type of badge when you could paint a repro one with so much less effort makes me doubt it is a fake. The slider is good, it is unbendable and a nice deep strike etc etc. It is just the flat backed scroll that is odd.

I know the 4DG badge you refer to as I used to have one and they were not a bad looking badge.

Alan

Keith Blakeman · #6 17-12-07, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

One possibility I had considered was that the main part of the badge was also used for the various OTC badges who also used the Queens badge (K&K show several). I am led to believe that the TF badges were not initially provided from the WD but bought privately and were often made by small suppliers. This could explain the unusual manufacture.

The difficulty for a faker to produce this type of badge when you could paint a repro one with so much less effort makes me doubt it is a fake. The slider is good, it is unbendable and a nice deep strike etc etc. It is just the flat backed scroll that is odd.

I know the 4DG badge you refer to as I used to have one and they were not a bad looking badge.

Alan

Interesting theory regarding the OTC's. I think there are about three with similar badges, Reigate, Guildford and one other but Sutton Vallence is completely different. Reigate is all brass but I'm not sure about the others. Still doesn't explain the lack of sweatholes though but it does look to be a good solid badge and I've seen similar with w/m overlays.

Rockape · #7 17-12-07, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

Interesting theory regarding the OTC's. I think there are about three with similar badges, Reigate, Guildford and one other but Sutton Vallence is completely different. Reigate is all brass but I'm not sure about the others. Still doesn't explain the lack of sweatholes though but it does look to be a good solid badge and I've seen similar with w/m overlays.

Keith & Alan, if there is an OTC or CCF connection, could it be feasible that the badge was manufactured after brazing hole technology was shelved (post 1920's)?

Keith Blakeman · #8 17-12-07, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockape

Keith & Alan, if there is an OTC or CCF connection, could it be feasible that the badge was manufactured after brazing hole technology was shelved (post 1920's)?

I thought that may be the case but I'm not sure when the 5th Queens ceased to wear a blackened badge, also they changed pattern (1920's?).

Alan O · #9 17-12-07, 11:47 AM

I am trying to find that out. You would assume that it would have been in the 1920s in line with the regular change over but I suspect there may have been a delay (as with the KLR). However it is not shown in K&K Vol 2 at all.

I have been trying to find another example to compare it to but I have yet to see one in any dealers stocks.

Alan

Keith Blakeman · #10 04-01-08, 12:28 AM

Here's an interesting example I picked up today which may go some way to explaining the re-use of dies for similar badges. I never noticed it until I was in the pub afterwards bit here we have a classic WW1 Queens 'economy' or 5th Btn. (of which I have no doubt that it's genuine) with an overlaid Cranleigh OTC scroll. No sweatholes and different to Alan's as the rear is impressed with 'The Queens'. I feel it it a re-used economy rather than a 5th as the blacking is uniform all over.