NZ nationality titles and 8th Army insignia

[loupie1961]

I've recently bought a 2nd NZEF Major's airtex KD tunic complete with insignia. What sounds odd in it, is the place where the nationality titles have been sewn in. They should be on the shoulder straps, rather than on the forearms.... could anybody of down/under let me know if they've seen such an arrangement before? what your overall impression on the embroidered "New Zealand" titles and 8th Army shield? Thank you in advance for your help!

[atillathenunns]

Cliff Lord who is a member of this forum is the man to answer this question.
I can only say that although uncommon, there is plenty of photographic evidence that New Zealand titles were worn on the shoulder instead of the epaulette.
Are there any stampings or makers marks?
What buttons does it have?
Brent

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by atillathenunns

,,,,there is plenty of photographic evidence that New Zealand titles were worn on the shoulder instead of the epaulette....

Brent

Maybe he wore a brass Regimental or Corps title in the holes below his rank badge? Are there any photos showing that configuration?

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Maybe he wore a brass Regimental or Corps title in the holes below his rank badge? Are there any photos showing that configuration?

According to Cliffs book-
The metal titles were worn until September 1940 being replaced by the white on black cloth titles.
Initially these were worn on the sleeve directly under the shoulder strap with the Formation sign below it, but later when the troops moved to the Middle East, the title was worn on the shoulder strap as a slip on loop.

[Quicksilver]

An interesting shirt and it certainly raises some questions. Airtex was common in British service but uncommon in NZ service. An officer attached to the British Army might have worn this combination, however I have never seen an 8th Army sign printed on ribbed silk before and neither has Malcolm Thomas my co-author. I am suspicious unless there is some provenance with the jacket. As regards the title, yes they were sometimes sewn on the sleve. However the book is generally correct.
Hopefully there will be others who have seen this combination before and can give you a positive answer. There is always something new to learn.
BRgds Cliff aka Quicksilver

[Quicksilver]

Further to my last on this subject, Dr Aaron Fox, who is a little known but major NZ military historian and collector has this to say:
I have no problems with the NZ title being worn on the upper sleeve, although it's not common on NZ tropical khaki drill or cellular clothing - the point being, that all such insignia was usually removed before the tropical short or jacket was washed. Battledress and Service Dress are a different story, and it is on these winter-weight items of uniform that you usually find the insignia stitched rather than slipped/pinned on.

The NZ title looks a little too fresh and new for my liking, although the 8th Army patch looks ok to me. The stitching appears to be in different threads, which also makes me wonder. I'd have been happier with this one if the NZ title have been slipped on the epaulette, the 8th Army patch had been applied to the upper sleeve with press-domes for ready removal, and the Africa Star ribbon had been pinned not sewn to the tunic. That said, why the 8th Army patch in the first place? If an NZ Div Major with HQ 8th Army (North Africa or Italy), who was he?
Rgds Cliff

[loupie1961]

Thank you Cliff... your firend's questions are quite stimulating.... some further research is definitively needed....