lace

[GTB]

Would be grateful to have this lace identified and confirmed.
The wider lace with 3 narrow black stripes is 55mm. The single wider black stripe version is 37mm. Other versions vary in width according to number of black stripes.
Thanks
GTB

[David Tremain]

RCN - Royal Canadian Navy perhaps?

David

[RCN]

Its the modern Canadian Armed Forces officer's sleeve lace, If the colour between the gold is black its RCN, if its green its Army.

The two bands represent Lieut (RCN) & the 4 bands Captain (RCN)

RCN Bryan

[GTB]

Thanks, David & Bryan,
With your help I'm on the right track. However, I need to clarify something.
The coloured braid is Black. Did not the Navy have an executive curl on uppermost lace band?
I have attached the present range I have and one can notice that the band with single narrow black braid has wider lace than all the others.
What would the 4 ranks now be?
Thanks
GTB

[RCN]

Hi GTB,

I will give you a little 'history' of our RCN so these ranks will fit into the correct time frame -

The "old" RCN of pre 1968 was the RCN that was formed in May 1910 & wore insignia identical to that of the RN. The officers wore the curl above their sleeve lace. The lace was embroidered in gold wire.

In 1968 our government of the day decided on a policy of integrating all of our three services into one force, to be called the CAF (Canadian Armed Forces) & this was to take place gradually over the next 2 yrs where all of the three forces were to lose their tri service identity & become one - ie: they were to wear one common green uniform. Thus the RCN became the CAF(N). In 1970 the uniforms changed to this common green uniform & the insignia worn was identical for all three former services. The Officers were to wear gold embroidered sleeve lace similar to that formerly worn by the "old" RCN except it was to be of a synthetic material - I think it was nylon or rayon, it came in single lengths & was sewn on the cuffs of the uniform.

Around the early 1980's the sleeve lace became issued in sections - ie: Lieut had both the lace bands together with a green band in the centre, a Major would have had two wide bands & one thin band between the two & with green space between etc.
I don't know exactly when this change was made as I was out by hthen.

Then approx. 1984 (now I may have this yr incorrect as 1988 sticks in my mind also) the new government of the day decided to separate the three forces again & return them to their original colours, so the Navy returned to black & the Air returned to a sky blue uniform. the Army retained the green uniform but later moved to a tan uniform for summer dress.
So now the sleeve lace for officers had a different colour between the gold bands.

In 2010 (on the 100th anniversary of the RCN) our present gov't decided to return to the "Royal" designations again.
So the CAF(N) became Royal Canadian Navy, & at the same time the Executive curl above the lace was returned - so now the RCN was wearing basically what we wore back in pre 1970 days. But now the Officer's sleeve ranks are all synthetic material, not the gold wire lace of the "old" navy.

I expect the lace you have appears to be the 1984-88 pattern when the RCN went back to their black uniforms.

The Naval Officer ranks only changed briefly to the Army ranks in 1968 - thus a Naval Captain became a Colonel. However the gov't of the day realized this was nonsense & permitted the CAF(N) to return to their original ranks. They have retained their original ranks since then - so 4 bands of lace was & is a Navy Captain.

Hope this assists you !

Bryan

[RCN]

The ranks you have are:

4 bands of lace - Captain RCN

3 bands of lace - Commander RCN

2 bands of lace - Lieutenant RCN

I don't know why the bottom two bands of lace appear wider & the space between them is greater. I expect tho it might be a different contractor that made this lace set. The gov't would let out contracts to have the insignia manufactured from time to time & perhaps this was contractor was not following the printed specifications exactly.

B