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  #1  
Old 20-11-20, 05:19 PM
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Default MARPLES & BEASLEY over BIRMINGHAM maker mark

There seems to be a general consensus on the Forum that the maker mark MARPLES & BEASLEY over BIRMINGHAM should not appear on the sliders of 'other ranks' badges made in white metal (WM), gilding metal (GM) or bi-metal (BIM). The mark is therefore an indicator that the badge is not genuine (i.e. a fake or reproduction), or that it is perhaps a genuine badge and the mark has been added to provide spurious verisimilitude.

The following list (not exhaustive) is an attempt to cover badges that have been seen for sale and/or have been identified on this Forum in recent years.

MARPLES & BEASLEY \ BIRMINGHAM

15th Hussars
17th/21st Lancers WM
21st Lancers (VRI) KC GM
22nd Dragoons WM
26th Hussars GM
5th Inniskilling Dragoon Guards KC WM
9th Lancers KC WM
Army Air Corps KC WM
Artists Rifles WM
Duke of Cornwall’s Light Infantry WM
East Lancashire Regiment KC BIM
Glider Pilot Regiment KC WM
Hertfordshire Yeomanry GM
Home Counties Brigade WM
Intelligence Corps KC GM
Lanarkshire Yeomanry GM
Manchester Regiment GM (fleur de lys)
Norfolk Regiment GM
North Irish Horse QC WM
Palestine Police KC WM
Parachute Regiment KC WM
Queen’s Own Yorkshire Yeomanry BIM
Rifle Brigade KC WM
Royal Dragoons BIM
Royal Engineers KC GM
Royal Fusiliers 1st Judean Battalion GM
Royal Norfolk Regiment GM
Royal Ulster Rifles KC WM
South Staffordshire Regiment QC BIM
Special Air Service BIM
Staffordshire Yeomanry KC WM
Staffordshire Yeomanry QC WM
Welsh Regiment WM (2nd VB)
Westmoreland & Cumberland Yeomanry GM


I will post some photos as examples.

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5 INNIS DG WM.jpg (51.2 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg 9TH LANCERS WM.JPG (87.0 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg 15TH HUSSARS GM.JPG (47.8 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg 21ST LANCERS GM.jpg (77.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 22ND DRAGOONS WM.jpg (50.9 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg AAC KC WM.jpg (56.9 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg ARTISTS AA.JPG (98.9 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg EAST LANCS BIM.jpg (55.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg HERTS YEO GM.JPG (79.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg HOME COUNTIES BDE WM.JPG (90.1 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg INT CORPS GM.jpg (52.3 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg JEWIS BN RF GM.JPG (89.0 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg M & B Sliders.JPG (74.1 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg MANCHESTER GM.jpg (62.7 KB, 36 views)
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Last edited by grey_green_acorn; 20-11-20 at 05:33 PM.
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  #2  
Old 20-11-20, 05:32 PM
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More photos:

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NIH QC WM.jpg (66.2 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg NORFOLK REGT GM.jpg (56.6 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg PALESTINE POLICE WM.JPG (54.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg QOY BIM.jpg (42.7 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg QUEENS RR GM (2).jpg (46.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg QUEENS RR GM.jpg (68.4 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg R NORFOLK GM.jpg (82.0 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg RE KC GM.jpg (120.2 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg RIFLE BDE WM.JPG (63.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg ROYALS BIM.JPG (69.1 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg SOUTH STAFFORDS QC BIM.jpg (47.9 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg WELSH REGT WM.JPG (66.1 KB, 23 views)
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  #3  
Old 20-11-20, 09:44 PM
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Please comment and add details and images of any examples not listed so far.

Tim
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  #4  
Old 21-11-20, 06:08 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Hi Tim
Are you saying that the Marples & Beasley / Birmingham mark is just completely spurious and should be avoided?
Thanks, cheers,
Alex
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  #5  
Old 21-11-20, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Rice View Post
Hi Tim
Are you saying that the Marples & Beasley / Birmingham mark is just completely spurious and should be avoided?
Thanks, cheers,
Alex
Ditto.....
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  #6  
Old 21-11-20, 09:33 AM
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The purpose of this thread is to highlight that it seems from many posts on this Forum that the MARPLES & BEASLEY over BIRMINGHAM mark should not be found on metal 'other ranks' cap badges. The opinions posted are that the badge might be genuine but the mark could have been added or that both the badge and the mark are fake.

Keen to hear other members views. The mark when/if found on officers' badges or on the sliders of anodised badges is a different matter!

This picture shows the availability of replacement sliders.

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg image.jpeg (75.1 KB, 199 views)
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"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
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  #7  
Old 21-11-20, 01:30 PM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Hi Tim
Seeing as it is only really O/Rs badges which carry sliders, then we can assume that it is a totally fake and any slider with that mark represents a fake badge?
Sorry for being a bit pedantic here as I think this post is very important and a great topic to question but I just want to make sure I understand 100%!
Cheers,
Alex
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  #8  
Old 21-11-20, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Rice View Post
Hi Tim
Seeing as it is only really O/Rs badges which carry sliders, then we can assume that it is a totally fake and any slider with that mark represents a fake badge?
Sorry for being a bit pedantic here as I think this post is very important and a great topic to question but I just want to make sure I understand 100%!
Cheers,
Alex
Alex,
There may just be the slight possibility that a genuine badge has had that faked maker mark impressed 'recently' on its slider. Or that a genuine badge has had its slider replaced with a fake maker marked one?

That said I believe all references on the Forum (and there are quite a few - just search "Marples") indicate that ALL other ranks metal badges with sliders maker marked MARPLES & BEASLEY over BIRMINGHAM are fakes.

Still expecting more forensic comments from Forum members.

Tim
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  #9  
Old 30-11-20, 04:36 PM
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More than 300 views but no suggested additions!
I can add the Highland Yeomanry in wm to the list.

Tim
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File Type: jpg image.jpg (87.7 KB, 70 views)
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  #10  
Old 01-12-20, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
The purpose of this thread is to highlight that it seems from many posts on this Forum that the MARPLES & BEASLEY over BIRMINGHAM mark should not be found on metal 'other ranks' cap badges. The opinions posted are that the badge might be genuine but the mark could have been added or that both the badge and the mark are fake.

Keen to hear other members views. The mark when/if found on officers' badges or on the sliders of anodised badges is a different matter!

This picture shows the availability of replacement sliders.

Tim
Hi Tim, I am sure this is the case, why else would someone buy 20 or 40 sliders if not for repairs.
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  #11  
Old 28-01-21, 09:15 PM
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Default Parachute Regiment King’s Crown Marples & Beasley

Parachute Regiment King’s Crown white metal.

Tim
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File Type: jpg 7CB675CC-DB36-4A46-BE80-83789EB0DE3F.jpg (33.4 KB, 96 views)
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  #12  
Old 31-01-21, 11:18 PM
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Here's another, Lancashire Fusiliers.

I've no idea whether or not the badge itself is a good one, but nevertheless it has the spurious slider.

IMG_1408.jpg

Regards.

Brian
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  #13  
Old 01-02-21, 06:40 PM
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Brian,
Thank you. I am sure there are more out there!

Tim
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  #14  
Old 01-02-21, 08:03 PM
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Two London Fire Brigade cap badges, two different patterns used at different time periods.
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File Type: jpg Screenshot_20210130-004825_eBay.jpg (60.8 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20210130-004852_eBay.jpg (97.8 KB, 73 views)
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  #15  
Old 01-02-21, 09:20 PM
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Phil,
I think that both those LFB badges are genuine with ‘proper’ makers marks.

Genuine mark
The letters are more spaced out (positive kerning);
the ampersand is central between 'MARPLES' and 'BEASLEY';
the three horizontal bars on the second 'E' in 'BEASLEY' are the same length;
the 'B' of 'BIRMINGHAM' is under the 'RP' of 'MARPLES'; and
the 'M' of 'BIRMINGHAM' is under the 'A' of 'BEASLEY'.

Fake mark:
The letters are very close together (negative kerning);
the ampersand is noticeably closer to 'MARPLES' than 'BEASLEY';
the three horizontal bars on the second 'E' in 'BEASLEY' increase in length, top to bottom, appearing to follow the left hand edge of the 'Y' in 'BEASLEY';
the 'B' of 'BIRMINGHAM' is directly under the 'P' of 'MARPLES'; and
the 'M' of 'BIRMINGHAM' is directly under the 'S' of 'BEASLEY'.

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 101FA03D-A94D-4B1E-A0C1-A501E920E822.jpeg (69.1 KB, 91 views)
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