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#151
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Quote:
The debate mentioning "those serving in merchant vessels" was in March 1915 , but isn't clear whether this is about what were termed "home boats" (those involved in import/export from Britain) or Commonwealth vessels. .
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#152
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OK, thanks Mike, I should have know that actually, my Grandfather served on the Marama from 1915 - 1918, which was a hospital ship.
Cheers, Tim |
#153
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Hi Tim ,
This is all a 'learning experience' for me and most of the information I got from a couple of NZ sites. Merchant marine Troopships .
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#154
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Hi Chipper and Mike
Great to follow this one! Sadly no, Bay is no more and my guess is that most of his "products" are now in junk shops, dealers or on eBay... Just picking up this thread, I found (but now can't find again....sigh) a newspaper mention of the NZ Govt making "concessions to seamen" (ohhhh...errrrr missus!) about granting them a badge to wear. The date is/was 1916 and there is also a file held at National Archives in Wellington that has the mention of "war service badges". The date range is 1916-1950 so would I be wrong in suggesting that this date of 1916 is the date for the introduction of the HMNZ Transports badge? That would fit nicely into the introduction of conscription (at which time a badge would be a pretty useful thing to have...) and also allow time for a sample 1914 Admiralty badge/design to wend its way back to NZ. When I (eventually!) find that mention I'll post a snip of it, promise, and maybe get someone to see what that file contains. I have a contact who might oblige! |
#155
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Yay! From the New Zealand Times, 15 April, 1916. The arm badges (or "armlets") referred to were much despised and many refused to wear them, calling them a "cheap gesture".
Of special displeasure would have been the Returned Soldier's red armlet with a yellow "G /crown/ R" on it as the colour was described in various sources as "Turkey red"..... |
#156
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Quote:
"Men not in uniform sometimes felt self-conscious; in Britain, the officers’ union, the Merchant Service Guild, demanded badges for its members to denote their service." Quote:
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted Last edited by mike_vee; 29-11-20 at 12:49 PM. |
#157
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Timeline
As more information is uncovered it gives a basic timeline regarding the various badges which "may" make things a bit clearer. This is more about dates rather than the two different badges and the style/crown anomalies .
26th December 1914 Admiralty memo giving a badge the title "Admiralty War Service Badge". This is assumed to be the enamel OWS 1914 badge , it was issued to shipyard workers “whose services were indispensable for the rapid completion of HM Ships and Armaments”. Monday 15 March 1915 Parliamentary question about granting War service badges to those who are engaged in our merchant ships. Note : "similar to the War service badges which are now granted by the Admiralty to those serving in merchant vessels which they have chartered or requisitioned". This seems to imply that there was already a separate War service badge for those " serving in merchant vessels " as opposed to "shipyard workers". (could this be the 'silver' Admiralty Badge ?) 15 April, 1916 From the article in post #115 and the information I found it appears that the HMNZ Transports badge was introduced when the Military Service Act (conscription) came into force on 2 March 1916. Food for thought ! .
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#158
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Hi Mike and others
Great that we might be finally able to piece together some of this! There is still that file that might provide more information so I'll chase this along. Shame that they are not just "down the road" and I could wander in.... |
#159
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Quote:
The four basic types (of which I have two) of armlet were: 1) Red with gold crown, Returned Soldier 2) Drabjean (khaki?) with red crown, men enlisted waiting to be called up 3) French-grey with green crown, men who have offered themselves for active service but been rejected 4) Light-blue with white crown men engaged in an exempted industry With each of these armlets (or "badges" as they were also called) went a small postcard sized document similar to the SWB cert. The certs have hardly survived at all and I finally traded for one after a long time actively seeking one! |
#160
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Quote:
"Judge of my surprise when I saw the self-same badges advertised for sale by a Birmingham firm of button makers. I have also seen colorable (sic) imitations". So , even in the early days when these badges were being officially issued there were copies/imitations being sold. Perhaps the badges with 'errors' are actually 105 year old fakes ! .
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#161
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Hi Mike
It rather gives one a whole new perspective on how "valuable" these badges were perceived to be at the time. I very much doubt that we would today see the same enthusiasm for such visible displays of patriotism, although clearly the art of the forger was still alive! |
#162
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Opinions
Another two examples that were recently offered on-line , it definitely seems that there are more of the 'tens' around .
Is it that they were produced in greater numbers than the 'nines' or are they badly made 'imitations' either produced at the time or later fakes made by dealers ? I still have my doubts that two different manufacturers would make the same 'error' on different badges.
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted Last edited by mike_vee; 14-12-20 at 12:28 PM. |
#163
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Spotted this example of a 1914 enamelled badge that shows they were definitely reused/reissued with new number stamped.
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#164
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Gaunt 1915 Enamelled OWS
I have always been under the impression that there were two different Gaunt makers marks to be found on the 1915 enamelled OWS badges.
1. Small J.R.GAUNT LONDON (two lines) 'raised' on the crown. 2. Larger J.R.GAUNT & SON.LTD LONDON (two lines) 'raised' and curved around top of badge. But I have now seen a third Gaunt makers mark : 3. J.R.GAUNT LONDON (single line) bottom of badge , at first I thought this was stamped/impressed but second photo clearly shows it is 'raised'. Anyone else seen this mark on enamelled or plain OWS badges ? .
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted Last edited by mike_vee; 16-12-20 at 10:07 AM. |
#165
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Interesting Mike, I've not seen a 1914 erased one I don't think. I'm sure you know the 1915's were, still conjecture as to why. Thanks for showing it, I'll be looking out for that now.
Also on your Gaunt maker marked enamelled ones, I also have not ever seen the third one either, and I have looked at loads of these over the years. Another super interesting find! Cheers, Tim |
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